Season 3 Practice/Dojo Modes

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Hey everybody, how’s it going? Apologies in advance for the long post.

Season 3 has been out for 9 days; it’s a bit early to discern exactly what’s coming, but one thing is for certain - improvements to Practice and Dojo modes were quite often requested. I think it’s fair to say that many of us feel vested in the competitive aspect of this game. I’ve created this thread to keep the ember of this topic burning. I like to entertain that there’s still hope for training optimizations in Season 3, but if nobody’s talking about it, it’s likely to fall by the wayside. Nothing can nurture the increasing skill of our player-base quite like a robust suite of training options!

MKX and SFV have both provided exemplary training modes - neither are perfect, but both feature options which are absolutely useful and could be likewise useful in KI.

@Infilament has provided some fantastic ideas in this arena, some of which have thankfully been added to the game (for instance - reversal notifications), and others which remain in limbo but would be really great.

I’m going to make a non-comprehensive wish-list of ideas (some of mine, mostly of others) to make Practice mode better… but I’d really like to hear what the community thinks could improve the mode:

  • If nothing else is implemented, please implement THIS: Ability to record wake-up action(s) and ability to record guard recovery action(s); or as Infil phrased it: “set the training mode AI to reversal with any move or movement option”. Here’s Infil on why this would be an amazing change: “The benefits for doing it are too many to name. We can test whether certain setups are safe at certain ranges, we can test whether mash jab really does beat our meaty setup or not without wondering if our inputs are frame perfect, and we can set up dynamic situations without a rigid recording which does not play nicely.” (source: S3 Feedback: Training Mode (and other) improvements)

  • Online Training Mode: as-is, @STORM179 and I are having to test setups in Exhibition mode, with none of the benefits of the existing training mode (for instance, if the setup we’re testing involves meter, one of us needs to block the other’s attacks to build meter). Please help us, and the KI community at large, by allowing two players to occupy training mode simultaneously.

  • Ability to switch default direction from facing right to facing left; or as Infil put it - “Switch 1P and 2P characters in Training Mode”. This would save a LOT of time… 30 seconds in character select each time you need a side-switch really adds up for those of us that spend a lot of time in the lab.

  • Option to turn off enders in Combo Breaker Training: Infil said it better than I could - “…one thing that prevents me from wanting to use the mode right now is the fact that the AI constantly uses an ender in the combos, sometimes even after just one chance to break. Then there’s a 5+ second lull in the action while the knockdown happens and the AI sets itself back up again, so I really can’t get “in the flow” of trying to learn how animations compare with each other.”

  • Attack Data display optimization: as-is it is quite large and only provides data for Player 1 attacks. I would like to see the display graphically streamlined so that it fits on either side of the screen without obstructing too much of the display, and I would like for it to appear on both sides providing data for both P1 and P2 attacks.

  • Another of Infl’s ideas - Allow a recording in training mode to be played back with frame step! I don’t want to have to export from Game DVR to Sony Vegas (or equivalent digital workstation) to view frame-stepped training videos.

  • Character-Specific Meter Toggle - for characters like Maya, Aganos and Hisako that have character-specific meters, it would be great to have the option to toggle full/empty. This means Maya won’t have to get the dummy to block pips; Aganos won’t have to manually re-chunk; Hisako won’t have to throw out a series of medium/heavy normal to drain wrath in order to test a wrathless setup, etc.

  • Shadow AI for Dummy: it would be amazing to have the option to select Shadow AI for our CPU dummy in Practice Mode. Kyle AI is decent with fishing for optimal options in specific situations (if you’re lucky enough to precipitate those situations while fighting Kyle), but I think it would be far more worthwhile to practice/test set-ups against Shadow AI.

Finally - I think that Dojo mode needs a complete overhaul. I would LOVE to see character-specific dojos, however even if we were to stick to Jago-only Dojo, with S3 changes in mind we’d need to overhaul Jago 101™ as well.

Anyhow - I’ve gone on long enough. I’m really excited to hear what you guys think and how you’d like to see training mode improved.

22 Likes

I second this. The biggest ones for me personally would be the online training mode and the ability to set the computer to do things with reversal timing. The reversal timing one would be huge for testing out knockdown pressure.

3 Likes

Oh I’m with this idea perfectly. I need to know how I can stuff some reversals and bait certain buttons.

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I’m really in favor of this. As someone who ISN’T a big lab rat, I would really like to see an online training mode. It doesn’t even have to be complicated. Just no death and infinite timer would do the trick. Everything else you might want is already in the game.

2 Likes

This would absolutely be better than exhibition matches. I’m really banking for the full suite, but if this were the only thing possible, I’d take it gratefully.

Yea I like this idea I have a friend that’s completely new to the game playing on windows 10 and he was asking me why only jago is only playable in dojo. He’s not super interested in jago and has since abandoned dojo despite me telling him this is a mistake.

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Thanks for that - it brings up a good point.

Having online training mode would certainly help us to increase the player-base. As of right now, we’re VERY lucky to have people in our community making content to help people learn about the game - but imagine how many people could be taught the basics (and how many more people would be willing to learn) if we could drag our friends into a training session and work it out at their pace and on their terms!

Not only would this allow for an increase in # of players, but it will also reduce stress on the content creators, allowing them to focus on more granular aspects of the game and spending less time teaching beginners the language of KI.

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For sure. All about making the game more approachable for new players, like you said reducing stress/ growing the community. I think that this would be a great addition that would continue to set KI appart from any other fighting game in a positive way.

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One thing is for certain - SF4 would have never grown into the monster it was if it weren’t for Online Training.

Dojo mode is not about learning jago lol

True - and that’s part of why I think it would be great to offer more characters in Dojo!

Not only would this facilitate more incentive to use the mode, but for characters like Aganos and Hisako who have unique game-plans, it would facilitate more interest in playing them.

There are some neat, unique character designs in this game and a dojo mode outlining the basic skeleton of those designs would be very helpful to newcomers.

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Yes I know. Not what I meant by it. I meant its a good way to learn the basics of the game. Good place for new players to start, but if the new player has 0 intrest in learning jago it might turn them off from trying to finish the dojo. Causing them to miss out on the mechanics of the game.

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Yeah I think he meant that your friend should play Dojo mode anyway because Dojo mode isn’t “Jago Mode”, LOL

Which is pretty much what you were saying… I think :smiley:

Thanks guys, by the way, for engaging in this discussion and keeping the thread front-page! :grinning:

Gotcha.

Don’t worry man I won’t start nothing lol

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Lol ah. Yea that’s pretty much what I told him but he’s more the type that wants to lean as he goes. We’ll play a set he will ask how and why I did something then I will basically show him and try to explain it. Everyone has their own way of learning I suppose. And no problem this something people have been asking about pretty much since the game came out and like you said if its not talked about anymore it will never happen.

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Dang you’re right though.

Sorry man didn’t mean to read that the wrong way lol.

No problem.

Right on, I’ve known more than a few people who learn that way (I was a trainer at my job for a few years).

Not to harp too much on the online training aspect of my OP (as there’s much more to discuss) - but I think it speaks volumes about the KI community that you’ve got pairs of players treating exhibition mode as if it were online training mode. I know STORM179 and I aren’t the only people to have done this. Players are exhibiting the will to help each other in the lab, and I think that we should absolutely facilitate an efficient environment in which they can do so.

For instance - STORM and I were playing a set the other night and I hit him with a setup I discovered in the lab but didn’t think too much about afterward. Only until after he asked me what just happened and we got to discussing the setup did I realize the worth of what I had discovered (because STORM knows his stuff). The discussion was predicated on our having to test the setup versus various scenarios - and in order to test these scenarios we have to spend a lot of time recreating conditions that training mode gives us options with which to make those conditions instant - and that’s not including the loading time between exhibition matches. (don’t worry STORM, not giving that lil’ guy away until after CEO :wink: )

Anyhow - enough about online training mode from me for now, I think most of us already comprehend the massive value inherent in adding this mode to KI.

1 Like