I’m getting really tired of the Kim Wu face complaints. She looks very good in profile (in my opinion), which is where you are spending most of your time. But beyond that you are comparing apples to oranges.
Juri maybe more aesthetically pleasing but she doesn’t look like a real person. Forgetting her impossible hair or movement, she is supposed to be Korean. I know a lot of Korean girls. That’s not what any of them look like. Just look at her nose and her eyes, in isolation. They don’t even vaguely resemble a Korean woman. And that’s fine. SF has a cartoony anime style and Ryu doesn’t look Japanese and Ken looks… well only God knows what Ken is supposed to be.
But KI is different and so is Kim Wu. I’ve toyed with the idea of posting a series of actual Asian women’s faces, but that would just invite a bunch of trolls to comment on how ugly they are. Kim Wu has Asian eyes, an Asian nose and a face shape that you might actually see on an Asian girl. You tell me she’s half Korean and half Chinese and I look at her and I think “sure, I’ll buy that.” Realistic human faces are difficult because our brains are actually built to analyze faces. Thats why many artists simply don’t draw them and why lots of games choose unrealistic design aesthetics. It’s not surprising that the two fighting games going for realistic depictions (MK and KI) get the most design criticism around faces. As far as the bias for pretty female faces I will leave that for another discussion. But it’s worth pointing out that Tusk is ugly AF with weird peg teeth and gets 5% of the commentary Kim-Wu gets.
More squarely on topic I have to support those pointing out that none of us know anything about the Hex engine or where the game is or isn’t having challenges in programming. There’s been a general fallacy that KI has lots of bugs and KI is built in the Hex engine, therefore The Hex engine causes lots of bugs. Its not well founded.
Sequel over new season because a(or several) character is ugly and may be better(or not!) with a new engine.
Gonna quote @BigBadAndy full reply and get behind it(since I was writing a similar reply, but since my english is meh, Andy’s version is just perfect to express my feelings)
Also, special like for pointing out the fallacy about the Hex engine
A new engine doesn’t guarantee nothing. The preference of a new engine(which may be not the best) against the current one(which IMO it’s fine) only tells me something: People who want a new engine(I’m not refering to anyone in particular) just don’t like enough the current game. You could mask it as “I want the best for KI”, but at the end, it’s personal preference.
Ah yes, are you talking about some retros or strange ribcages like Orchid’s or Sadira. Because he couldn’t be talking about a character which wasn’t released yet, right?
1: Twitch chat? One of the most toxic places to gather feedback?
2: Maybe you didn’t recognize them because haters are haters and will hate anything without playing it?
I mean, I know SF haters, Battlefield haters, COD haters, FIFA haters… Who never played that games
Haters hate just because. Their reasons are subjective, not objective(that’s constructive criticism, which is wellcome). The funny part to me is that normally, every hater doesn’t play the game they hate. KI seems to have haters among his playerbase. People who despise devs, balance, characters, engines, appearances… Hilarious
Would you agree that most games are based on fiction? Video games are not always ever going to 100% depict humans properly unless you were going for an hyper-realistic style of game which rarely exist these days. Video games are about giving developers and artists creative freedom and show their wild ideas and make things look cool or appealing. Just take a look at any anime ever…most Anime are based on humanoid characters yet none of them actually depict them has ever having humanly possible features. The point here is the Juri is visually appealing while Kim is not…while art is always purely subjective you can’t argue that usually majority wins with these kind of things. If most agree that something is beautiful it generally is; yet if most agree if something is ugly then it generally is.[quote=“BigBadAndy, post:147, topic:15814”]
But it’s worth pointing out that Tusk is ugly AF with weird peg teeth and gets 5% of the commentary Kim-Wu gets.
Tusk is one ugly dude…but to your point is probably because he actually sees less play in tournament at least offline than Kim does haha.
I’ve seen some pretty beautiful Asian woman in my lifetime and Kim looks nothing like them honestly.
You do realize users on Twitch chat and on the internet are still actually real people right? It doesn’t matter where the comments come from because everyone has a voice. For people whos first time watching KI was at SCR and saw that they hated Kim’s face and discourage them from trying out the game because they don’t like how the characters look then I mean that’s a problem. Speaking from personal experience I am one of those people that will refuse to play a game because it looks aesthetically bad.
What about Sajam who was also ripping on her the entire time on commentary? Is he a toxic troll too?
Just a question: Why does Kim must be beatiful? Can’t she be ugly? Doesn’t ugly humans exist?
Also, IMO Kim is not ugly
I do realize. I do realize that it’s easy to enter a chat, speak about something you don’t know, and play the “hooligan”. Since Twitch chat goes fast and there are lots of people there, it’s hard to have a decent conversation, so at the end, it’s hard to give an actual logical reply there between all the “Yolo”, “when’s mahvel”, “Kappa”, and all that stuff
Errr. Yes. It’s a problem for THEM. I mean, do you believe that, I don’t know, Undertale should have Unreal engine, 3D graphics, and AAA budget to be better? Because IMO it doesn’t, it’s perfect as it is.
I prefer KI aesthetics over SFV’s. None is better: just different. People are in their total right of not liking it. But do you want to change them because some people doesn’t? Then you are not respecting the Devs creativity. [quote=“CrazyLCD, post:149, topic:15814”]
Speaking from personal experience I am one of those people that will refuse to play a game because it looks aesthetically bad.
I can understand that, although I disagree. My favorite game ever, Ultima Online, has poor graphics, but is really fun and I wouldn’t change them(the graphics) for anything. Was part of the charm
No, he isn’t. I’m not saying that everybody who claims that Kim’s face is bad is a toxic troll. I’m claiming that people who doesn’t give alternatives and just critiquice for pleasure and without caring are toxic trolls
You are not a toxic troll. You come here to give constructive feedback. I don’t agree with your reasons or conclusions, but I praise you for coming here and trying to make the game better.
Doesn’t every game have a part in it that someone thinks is ugly or stupid? MKX for all it’s beauty, has some nasty character endings. The ending when you beat the tower is also just nasty and stupid. This is just men but I think the VF series has the ugliest characters in a fighting game, and always has.
I see it this way. Someone has to be the ugly character, so why not Kim? Some characters look bad, and some look great.
Ibuki looks like Dobby the House Elf. In the same engine.
No sane person looking for valid and workable feedback obtains it from trolls memeing in Twitch chat, by the way.
Yes, “Kim’s face is ugly” is a meme. Pretty sure it’s your meme.
I also doubt this was ever actually a thing. I’m sure some people said such things, but if it was a face that decided whether or not the game was worth trying, they likely weren’t interested in the first place. There is this wild misconception that all opinions are equal and valid… thing is, in the real world, they aren’t. That’s a myth that propagates itself on the internet.
I recall reading somewhere that the difficulties with the Hex engine are behind the lack of updates to the Training Mode, in which case… I’d really like for them to be able to update the Training Mode. It’s pretty much the most important resource in the game. I’m not saying the necessity of better Training functionality means we need a sequel to achieve it, and a sequel would be shot to the foot in yr.3 (maybe not in yr.5 or yr.7)… I just wanted to take an opportunity to remind everyone of #BUFFPRACTICEMODE
But seriously, without significantly growing the fanbase, does anyone think trying to re-hype the release of Jago and Fulgore is a viable marketing strategy?
Sigh. I’ve seen a lot of beautiful Asian women in my day and none of them look like Juri. You’re missing the point on this. Okay, here are some pictures of actual Asian women who fight for a living. You can discuss whether or not they are beautiful if you want to, but it is objectively undeniable that if you consider their facial features, they look a hell of a lot more like Kim Wu than Juri. Look at their eyes, their noses, their mouths, jaws etc. Then go back and look at Juri… Kim may or may not be your definition of pretty but she looks like a person. So stop saying “damn, Kim-Wu is so ugly” and please instead say “damn, Kim-Wu doesn’t look enough like an Asian sex doll airbrushed into a magazine or a Manga.” At least then it makes it clear that you are talking about a design choice rather than some sort of artistic failure.
Well, they did go back and relight the stages, so I’m hoping that they’ll go back and touch up the characters’ faces, hair and retros as well. I’m not betting on it, but if they were to make this a substantial project along the lines of the stage relighting, I’m sure a lot of fans, especially the pickier ones, would be happy about it.
This is easily the weakest argument you could make. C’mon man. I don’t care if it’s KI fans or not. People in chats say crappy things. They bring negativity, they joke, they vie for attention. Using these people as support for your argument or, god forbid, some type of barometer for much of anything is a stretch to say the very least. Get them out of that crap flinging environment and I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if most of them were either okay with, or at the very least indifferent to Kim Wu’s looks.
What if an artist chose to use their creative freedom to depict a character with more accurate proportions and an appearance that’s more culturally accurate? Is that okay, or can you only express your freedom if you’re making all of the women in to racially ambiguous blow up dolls? No kidding, 100% serious… I had no idea Juri was even supposed to be an Asian character.
As for majority “winning,” I’d ask… Win what? You’re still speaking subjectively. 51% of the people saying Kim Wu looks crappy doesn’t mean she suddenly looks crappy from an objective standpoint. She doesn’t become crappy. I’d also dispute your majority given the source.
Well, that’s you then. Personally, red hair aside, I’ve seen Asian women with similar features.
Yeah but you’re not taking the environment in to consideration. Some places simply bring out the worst in people. Go over to Game Informer’s comments section and you’ll see a place where people, for the most part, treat each other with respect. Now go to a YouTube comments section for pretty much anything. Usually tends to be the opposite.
Of course everyone has a voice, but when you put those voices in a place where hurling insults and jokes and vying for attention is part of the culture, you’re going to see people ripping on stuff. A lot. You want to keep cherry picking your support, go right ahead. I’m just saying that an environment like that doesn’t support your argument nearly as much as you think it does.
Just my own subjective opinion, but SFV has some of the ugliest character designs I’ve seen in a fighting game. The idea that we’re comparing SFV to KI in terms of how to make a character look good is really strange to me, but whatever.
Perfect. Couldn’t agree more, Andy.
LCD, I get that you don’t like how Kim looks and that’s fine. Your opinion and you’re absolutely entitled to it. But the fact that you seem so hell bent on speaking for twitch users of all people to indicate some sort of consensus behind your opinion and arguing about artistic expression when it seems to be your expression that you’re looking for in KI, IMO, doesn’t help your cause much.
As I’ve said, I’d love to see MS / IG take the time to smooth out some rough edges on characters, whether it’s faces, hair, retros, etc. I want them to be the best version of the artists vision, whatever that may be. But I don’t think they should have to sacrifice their artistic vision just to turn characters like Kim Wu in to white-washed blow up dolls just because you think that looks attractive or because women have to be that way in order to appear in a fighting game. I don’t think that’s the case in a growing number of games and I don’t think it should have to be the case.
I also kind of wonder why we got on this when the topic is supposed to be you wanting a new game when, as others have said, a new game guarantees nothing beyond the fact that the current one ends. I mean, do you think IG will suddenly say “alright, we’ve got a new engine, we can now make Kim Wu look like a white Victoria’s Secret model like we always intended” or what?
Awww, let’s be fair. It’d be a Harajuku Victoria’s Secret model. Nationality doesn’t matter to the Kleenex shareholders, “yellow” is close enough.
I’ve seen a lot of Asian women in my day, and none of them look like Juri. That girl’s white.
The idea of Kim being Korean kind of confuses me, though. I thought Korean naming conventions tended to result in a 3-part name (or, a 2-part given name [given and generational] and a family name); for example, Jun-Ho Bong or Su-Chin Park. Moreover, she presumably resides in China Town, and (to me, anyway) looks closer to Chinese than Korean (especially her nose and the shape of her eyes).
I believe this to be a more pressing point of criticism than whether or not I can easily fantasize her in a silk negligee nibbling on my ear while I run out of Jergens with my keyboard at a safe but reachable distance.
It’s good that we got to the heart of the matter, though. Cleverly disguised “Kim’s face” thread, obsessive guy. You had me goin’ there for a minute.
Well, by her story, she was born in San Francisco. Her name fits an Americanized Korean name, as far as I know.
I’m also guessing that wasn’t a huge consideration when she was first introduced back in the 90’s, but the fact that she’s half-Korean, half-Chinese and she was born in and grew up in the US means her name makes sense, again, as far as I know.
lol, I don’t think that’s his sole purpose for wanting a new game, but it’s definitely weird that we got on that topic at all.
That’s fair. I apologize to LCD and all others in this thread. I kind of forgot what-all has gone on in this thread before Kim’s face. There has been some good discussion.
They always come 'round to Kim’s face, though. Once we get there, after a dozen posts or so it I tend to get lost in a haze-of-memory with a bunch of overlapping threads. I’ve got a poor sense of direction.
Totally forgot any and all details of her story. I redact most of my previous statement, except the part about looking not-so-Korean, but that actually kinda depends on which frame of what animation we’re looking at. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. She looks more Asian than the points of comparison.
I remember someone saying that they’d run this version of KI throughout the life of the current console. With the next microsoft console already looming they might as well save the next ki when that thing ever launches and just keep doing seasons and patches for the current KI.
Its still a new console itll have games that use all that power otherwise whats the point. Just like videocard im not gona be able to rum skyrim on my 16meg voodoo banshee. Maybe theyll make dumbed down versions but if you want the real deal using all the power you need a new system not just a part unlike a pc.
If they don’t have requirements for developers to ensure their games run fine on normal xbone hardware they’re insane. We’re only 3 years into the life of the console, there’s no good reason for them to do something like that now. It’s much more likely that they’ll have strict rules that games have to be acceptable on both consoles that in the future they relax on, resulting in a smoother transition into the next generation rather than driving a hard wedge between the old hardware and the new. I could see them making exceptions now for VR stuff, though.