The Killer instinct Costumes Controversy

I’ve talked about costumes in this game quite often and now that we are just holding our breath until March when Season 3 drops, I think it’s time to bring this up one last time in hope to finally get some answers going forward. It’s no secret that a lot of fans were displeased with the costumes in this game and knowing that MS has said they have no plans to ever go back and change any of them is very disappointing to me. They aren’t all bad though but a lot of them are and when you have many people not only me talking about this then you know there is a problem; especially when they make you pay for these costumes ahead of time in the UltraPack. There have been threads about this going all the way back to the old Double Helix forums in early season 1 and if there are this many people upset or concerned by this problem it needs to be finally addressed going into Season 3.

In the above video I discuss the following:

  • Denying players what they paid for
  • Sex appeal in video games
  • Rated T vs Rated M restrictions
  • PC Port modding
  • Attention to detail

This thread and video are not me trying to take shots at anyone who works on KI rather is just me being passionate about the game and trying to get what players deserve and have been asking for. I invite anyone to check out this whole length video as I do make a lot of good points in it and show you some stuff you probably have never heard or seen before.


So why is it a problem that they chose Orchids KI 1 costume over her 2 again? They both retro.

Edit: Small remark about Rashid. That char is safe as ■■■■ and capcom knows it. They designed him to be as inoffensive as possible. Now look at giefs stage. Capcom knows how to play it safe when they feel it matters.

Also I like a large majority of the accessories.

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You make a lot of fair points, I agree with you for the most part and always found a majority of the retro costumes lacking in detail. Some costumes only need some generous touch-ups like Glacius’s fat neck, Sabrewulf’s fur and clothing and Jago’s excruciating hair. Some like Fulgore do deserve to have a overhaul and accessories for said retros. I was never truly satisfied as a consumer and devoted fan of the series. With Season 2 generally having a good design for the retros, IG should atleast do some justice and patch what was left without attention to detail. No disrespect to the original members of DH, but with the community having a voice to influence this game a majority of that agreeing that the S1 costumes are lacking should justify their revamping.

There’s no question some people don’t like the costumes. I would be careful about saying “most” or “the majority” of people don’t like them. And if it turns out that people dislike them for different reasons, then they aren’t likely to gain much by fixing them.

I will say this much - if they give in to all the frustrated whining from horny dudes and give Orchid some stupid butt floss outfit I’m going to be pretty disappointed. I don’t want that junk.


I should have made this more clear in the video but the argument here is not to satisfy all the little horny teenagers, it’s to rectify a promise of delivering retro costumes exactly or closely as possible to the originals. Purposely denying that for stupid reasons like “Orchid is showing too much booty” is nonsense. (Especially when you look at a character like Sadira) I mean just take a look at Hisako’s hair and compare it to the hair of orchids classic costume, the amount of time put into each is night and days apart. Fulgore’s classic costume is a travesty and what makes it worse is the fact that people like me and others paid for these in advance with the Ultra Edition packs and were extremely dissatisfied.

That is the argument here.


I think there should be a specific style or art-direction that every game should follow, but ultimately, it’s the fans that matter and if they’re disappointed with what’s on show, well then I don’t think that’s something the developers and publishers should ignore.

They didn’t. I would be happy with her KI1 or KI2 costume, but we got some weird hybrid instead.

THIS is how her KI1 costume would look done right:


Sorry, @CrazyLCD I wasn’t addressing that directly at you, just at the general history of requests for new retro costumes.

I too paid for the Ultra edition, sight unseen and frankly I’m not that upset by the retro costumes. Glacius’s retro is fantastic, but people still complain about it. Spinals is awesome. Jago’s is spot on for his KI 2 outfit, but people still complain. Thunder is weak, but anyone who expected to see the 1994 Chief Thunder model show up isn’t living in the real world. Sadira’s are as good or better than her default. Fulgore’s get’s tons of hate but to me it looks like the same doughy man in a robot suit from the original game. I just don’t see what all the fuss is about. I agree that Orchid’s hair could use some work. But her outfit looks like her KI 1 outfit to me. Sabrewulf does look like a rat, but if you compare feature by feature it’s a lot like his original design. It just needs a shiny plastic looking “mane” of hair to puff up his face.

@KrizmKazm That model is cool, but it’s not radically different from the retro that we got…

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It doesn’t have to be radically different, just one small change to make it accurate. The boots. But I’ve been beating this horse for years…

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Probably has to do with how the devs feel morally represent a modern women. Showing ■■■ like her KI 2 costume is a bit too much to handle for some people and MS are pretty conservative in this subject and mature content in general.

Her face looks terrible. I like the ones we have now more than that.

I think the reason Glacius neck is like that is due to the way the rig is on the bones. That’s why Riptor’s tail is still segmented.,Heck,even the retro Cinder has fingers like the current Cinder.
and that’s why Glacius’s retro outfit has the neck like that.

Also to note,that while Orchid’s retro has disappointed some, at least the Orchid fans don’t have it as bad as the Thunder fans. Their is not a single thing for the KI-1 Thunder in anyway (I could be wrong though).

You should’ve made it unquestionably clear – this entire topic has been dragged through the mud by people fiending for thong leotard Orchid and redskin feather-mohawk Thunder. It’s probably a major reason why the devs tend to remain quiet on the subject of revisiting the classic costumes entirely.

Either way, Thunder fans have it much worse than Orchid fans.
Now while I guess

Agree classic costumes were terrible and thats putting it nicely season 2s were better but most of the original characters were in season 1 so its really disappointing but whats even more disappointing is the devs refusal to go back and fix things i mean look at that video above that fan made orchid looks way better then what we got and thats one guy who made that im assuming, they dont even have to redo them completely if they cant just modify them i used to be the biggest fan of the game but the way the game has been handled with certain things has been disappointing and its putting me off


I totally Agree with LCD.

Characters are the most important thing in a fighting game, not only fighting style, but how character looks too! And i’m sure that a lot of other people think like me.
And Pls, stop with this nonsense that, if you do a game with a lot of sex appeal girls, women will lose interest in your game, i mean, the fighting game that has most female pro players that i know, is ironically Dead or alive, and look at how the game is, i know a lot of female friends that love that game to death.
I lost my hope at IG retouching these costumes, the only hope that i got now is Mod support, pls IG listen to LCD’s voice, i can’t say he speak for the entire community, but he speak for me too, and i’m sure that he speaks for at least a couple of guys of this community. Look how much he loves this game, look at the pile of boxes behind him, looks who’s on top haha, i mean, look at him, who does that?
But seriously, if you guys don’t want to do that, at least make mod support a reality, i can’t play this game on PC, because my PC sucks, but make Mod support a reality for both PC and XBOX pls!

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I want them to literally take the old 1994 Silicon Graphics 3D models and port them over to the new game. It would be a great April fools joke :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t know why they didn’t want Orchid’s retro as it was originally, but saying “Capcom does it” has zero bearing on what MS is okay with. Honestly, I think R Mika, Laura and Cammy look ridiculous. Sorry, but some stuff should be left in the 90’s not because feminists might complain, but because its embarrassingly juvenile and outdated.

As for that crack about “why no one’s buying KI” having to deal with the lack of s-e-x appeal, for one… That’s not only an unnecessary (and kinda bush league) cheap shot at the dev and publisher), but “s-e-x sells” is simply not true.

I know. It’s one of those things that’s said so much that it’s just this universal truism, right? Wrong. Studies have shown that using scantily clad women or virtually anything else related to s-e-x has no impact on whether a person buys a product or not.

I mean think about it logically for a moment. If a game comes out and it’s really good, but all of the women in it are dressed normally and not like jailbait or fetishes etc, do you honestly look at that game and think “man, where are the bewbs bouncing around the screen? Why isn’t that chick’s back end hanging out? I don’t think I want to buy this.”

And it’s the same thing with beer, with restaurants etc. You will turn away so many people with s-e-xual advertising that those you gain that are drawn by it usually create a zero net gain or even a loss.

So why do so many advertisers do this? I mean, if studies have shown that it doesn’t really work, then why bother? Two reasons. For one thing, we’re a vanity culture. We like seeing hot chicks, even if seeing them has zero impact on whether we buy the product they’re advertising or are in etc or not.

Two, and more importantly… Advertisers are VERY slow to adapt. They do what’s safe. Tried and true, even if it’s not true. They also do what’s easy and what’s cost efficient. People that hire ad companies love that second part.

So if MS didn’t like Orchid’s retro because they thought it looks ridiculous or lame or garishly 90’s then so be it. It’s there prerogative and saying they’re scared of offending people doesn’t change that fact. As you said, Capcom does it. This was preference, and I side with their preference on this.

For Thunder, yeah, the taller, multi-colored Mohawk could’ve been a cool way to do it as opposed to the highly unauthentic feather Mohawk that he had in the 90’s. I think DH dropped the ball there. But if they’d rather play it safe and go a different route, no big deal.

I really don’t think it’s a PC culture thing either. I think they just wanted either authenticity or something completely different and that left no room for something that, at best, was unauthentic and at worst, a 90’s gaming era caricature of a Native American. Simple as that.

My issue is that a lot of the season one retros simply aren’t very well done from a quality standpoint. I’ve seen the pics of Wulf, Orchid, Fulgore etc that go with that Thunder pic in the video and what we have now falls far short of those pics.

I’d really like to see all of them touched up. Make the hair look better, clean up the faces some, smooth out all the rough edges in the designs and simply make them better wherever possible. It’s not just a preference thing, it’s addressing a weaker looking aspect and doing right by the quality of the rest of the game and the fans as well.

I don’t fall in to the camp that believes we’re entitled to spot on replicas of classic KI costumes. I think it’s unrealistic to expect certain things, even if LCD can’t wrap his head around why (and that’s not a jab at you, man, our opinion just differs a bit) But he is absolutely 100% correct about the quality issue. Completely agree there.


You make a couple good points. I do of course disagree on some of the changes made to the costumes but I also like to point out that some look like or feel like they do due to the bone rig (in theory) Riptor’s default and retro have thre same rig so inevitably the tail would move and separate on both. Even classic Cinder’s fingers are like that. That is also why Glacius has a neck like he does.

I thick it safe to say we won’t ever egt `100% accurate costumes. Heck I don’t 3expect tusk or Kim-Wu to be down 100 percent either.

I also think that theya re trying to refrain from boosting the M on it though a woman dressed like ivy has never had a baring on the games ranking in Soul Calibur. I’m not saying that us the case either.

All I can aree on is that the retros for season1 can use a bit of touching up. But I don’t find myself to be entitled.

There’s some costumes I do like the only gripe I have with retro wulf is his eyes are DERPY and he looks too scrawny. But that’s it.

Fulgore’s retro could be a bit more sleeker.

Riptor,Glacius and Cinder’s are near-perfect, only reason I can let thier faults slide is that’s the way the rig is. When you’re working with a team of other folks. I can understand where this is coming from as I am an animator myself (characters specifically)

All I hate about Riptor’s retro is alot of weird looking accessories. Don’t get me wrong I get the whole point of the character costumes. But…personally I was hoping for a Riptor with accessories to make her look more like a dragon or something. We ended up with a cheerleader outfit…funny but not quite what I was hoping for. I think that’s why I don’t use retro riptor as much as I was hoping to because I didn’t find the accessories to be that great.

As for M-rated restrictions: I don’t beleive it’s that restraining. At most you can allow with the T-Rating is that their’s no real lopping off of heads or gore. Which KI doesn’t really need in my opinion. There’s alot of creative stuff they can still get away with.

If anything I’d say if they can do some really crazy neat stuff while under the T-rating that takes real creativity. To be able to deliver what we want without going over the rating.

T summarize: I don’t tink the T-Rating is so bad. But the thing is, it will never change rating so we’re out of luck with that anyway. I would appreciate it if they could go back and touch up some of the retro costumes a bit. I don’t know if they’ll even do it, but if they do, it will be appreciated.

Unfortunately this whole thing has been beaten more times than a dead-horse.