Practically beating a dead horse with a dead horse
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One thing I would like are themed costumes for the whole cast. Everyone getting robot/android costumes, or horror outfits, etc.
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Iâm not aware of anyone saying that. But I can tell you if there is a ton of gratuitous skin and hyper sexual characters then Iâm going to lose interest. Itâs not puritanism, itâs just that I am not going to sit for an hour on a Saturday afternoon playing a game where my kids are looking at that â â â â . Period. I bought MK X and I never play it. I downloaded the demo for DOA 5 Ultimate and I never play that either. Itâs not that they arenât good games. But I just donât have enough private game time. And frankly, digital bouncy boobies donât do anything for me. Iâm a grown, married man. I donât need that stuff in my game. So I hope they donât get sucked in.
You make a lot of fair points.
Microsoft at the end of the day does have the complete right to decide what goes into the game and what doesnât as their ideals and design philosophy can be dramatically different than that of Capcom; but that is not what we (I) are specifically arguing about. Itâs really hard to argue that fans and even customers who purchase the Ultra Packs of Season 1 ahead of time were promised in advance that we would be getting classic costumes that replicated what the characters use to look like in the old games; especially in the case of characters like Thunder, Orchid, Wulf and Fulgore. When you pay for something and donât get what you were expecting, itâs perfectly acceptable to be upset about it. That would be like going into a restaurant and ordering a steak well done and they bring it to you rare; obviously you would be unhappy with that and send it back and ask for a new one.
Even you yourself have expressed your displeasure with the retros and would like them re-done so Iâm not the only person who is talking about this stuff. You also have to look at the discrepancies in their logic when it comes to suggested themes like showing too much of a womanâs butt. Take Sadira for example where her butt is all out there including her being in a thong and panties in her classic costume; why is that okay but making sure the classic costume for an iconic character like Orchid is done well or accurate is not? What about Maya, why does her retro costume have short hair as apposed to long hair like in KI2; is her having long hair too suggestive of a theme -_-
I love IG and MS to death and will always support them and this game but giving an answer of âWe will never re-do or fix the costumesâ is not acceptable for me; especially when we each character only has 1 extra costume to begin with itâs not too much to ask to make sure they at least look good. If every character had 10 costumes then fine having one that looks bad isnât that big of a deal but that isnât the case.
Again no one is asking for this game to turn into a sex themed oriented game where all the woman have to be sex symbols and showing a lot of skin; it isnât about that and Iâve never make this argument to be about that. The principle involved here is that there are a ton of players who remember characters for how they were back in the day and itâs not too much to make them look as such. I know a truck load of people who told me they were never into fighters but love KI so much back in the day because of their iconic characters and the way they looked and now play this one because of it.
I mean I donât even play characters like Thunder, Fulgore, or Wulf but holy crap those are most complained about retros and I can understand why.To your point about your kids seeing that stuff itâs not really the games fault as the game is rated T for a reason; and in no way ever would KI ever turn into DOA. Iâm 24 and in the same boat as you where Iâm not really using a games fake females to do anything for me and Iâm sure most if not all people are the same.
Yeah man, i agree with you, i donât want to KI to become a DOA, where all the women show a lot of skin, bouncing bobs and all this crap (That destroyed DOAâs image). I just wanted to say, if DOA didnât offended a lot of women out there, that argument (That this will offend women) is not the excuse, why a single âClassic costumeâ will offend them? I mean, that is the classic, itâs already done. I donât want to see orchid bikini outfit, Maya bath costume or any bullshit like that, i just wanât the classic costumes to be classic costumes.
In the familyâs scenario, i donât think that a single costume will make you donât play the game, i mean, you play street fighter, donât you?
They will be just doing as it was before, they will not making this game to be oversexualized to sell, they are just bringing back a classic and fan loved character back to KI, as it looked before.
Btw, English is not my original language, sorry for that.
No need to apologize for your English, it is fine. I actually donât play street fighter at the moment, because I donât have my 360 or PS3 hooked up. Iâm trying to think of the inappropriate costumes in SF and all I can really think of is Cammy. I would probably play the game and just not pick her.
As far as SF V, Iâm actually on the fence. I think R. Mika is pretty badâŠ
I would say it is more like ordering a steak and they bring it to you and it doesnât have enough salt on it. But thatâs because Iâm not upset about the classic costumes.
Thereâs no question that there are people upset about them. Opinions differ as to whether the classic costumes live up to what was promised, and if not, how badly they missed the mark. All that is fine. The second piece of the puzzle is whether or not this is something that is worth going back and changing. Opinions will differ on that too.
I agree with you that more outfits and costumes for characters would be a good thing for the game. If you had to choose between re-worked retros and entirely new costumes for characters, what would you pick?
Updated this thread with the mock ups that people were asking for.
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I remember those mock ups, unfortunately, they never said anything about making them 100% like the originals. Donât get me wrong, I understand how you guys feel. From what I heard though, Mayaâs outfit was the result of the hair clipping through Fans would be nitpicking about the clip through with the original hair if they didnât keep it short. through. I think Glacius is like that with the bone rig. Either that or they wanted to remind us that this is an Alien. Thunder. I definitely understand. Sabrewulf could be better though.
But who knows maybe if they get time they can fix the retro designs.
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I doubt it, With how pigheaded theyâre being.
True enough, still will argue on Jagoâs awful hair and agree on Thunder being widely different and lacking his original image.
Either way, no point in getting them redone at this point. Unless they find time thatâs all we got. But I donât think you guys should give up though
To be honest if Iâd known the game were going to be treated like this and the retro costumes we were promised that we were going to be getting that we would not be getting, Then I would not have downloaded the game no matter how much I love the series.
That mock up of maya is awful. New retro is so much better. The season 2 retros are based on a variation of their original outfit. Kevin bayliss already stated this long before they came out. I love retro riptors head, not so much the cheerleader ensemble.
I completely agree though that the season 1 cast do need a touch up. The hair seriously needs looked at and jagos sword levitating and clipping thru his back strap
There are a few things that they could certainly touch up and tweek. I think Orchidâs outfit doesnât need to be more like KI2âs costume, but I do think it needs to look more like a costume than just spray paint. Her character model is what I think is the problem when it comes to the retro outfits odd looking reflective surface, so maybe making the costume thicker and the surface smoothed out might make the weird reflections look better.
If she was to be worked on, I think she would need something around her midsection, to break up the huge area of nothing going on there. A belt with just a couple of grenades on it, cause she pulls them out of where exactly? That costume ainât got no pockets. 
When it comes to the hair, I think a good few of the characters could use some work. Orchid, Sadira, Sabrewulf, even Maya (retro) adn Jago I suppose would need it worked on.
Sabrewulf needs some kind of transitional hair. By this I mean some mid level hair that sticks out, but doesnât need Physx or move around and stuff, to help stop the whole " this is hairy area, this is not hairy area" going on with his body.
As for his retro, Iâd deffo give him pants. That furry Y-bob thing with belt combo is justâŠno. 
Big job for Sabrewulf: shrink the bridge of his muzzle, where the brows meet, so that his eyes are angled forward and he is not looking in two directions like a chameleon. Heâs a dog, a hunter. All hunters are such because they have forward-facing eyes.
Thunder? Iâd just let this one go guys. Sexism is one thing, but thereâs no telling what bad press racist allegations can cause, especially a people who have had so much offence and abuse done to them as Native Americans.
Just let this one go.
I of course agree with what @CrazyLCD said about the other retros being offensive that Thunder is now portrayed as a convict or a biker gang thug, but that can at least hold some inner story telling, given Thunderâs history with Ultratech.
Another good point though, to end off with.
WHERE ARE THE HALLOWEEN COSTUMES???
Other than having a less than glamorous face, I actually like Thunderâs retro. Sure itâs not anything like his original KI outfit, Igrant you, but whatâs there isnât actually bad (artistically speaking).
#thuglife
Touch up is the least they can do.
There are countless threads about this. We have been shut down every time by Microsoft. I donât think they are going to go back in and rework anything we already have. So Orchid, Sabrewulf, etc, would have to be tweaked out of the kindness of their hearts. There is still a possibility of a 3rd costume, but I do not see the point if it is going to be another retro iteration.
My only suggestion would be to up the price of Season 3 in order to invest in this rework. Other than that were SOL.
[quote=âCrazyLCD, post:25, topic:2071â]
Itâs really hard to argue that fans and even customers who purchase the Ultra Packs of Season 1 ahead of time were promised in advance that we would be getting classic costumes that replicated what the characters use to look like in the old games; especially in the case of characters like Thunder, Orchid, Wulf and Fulgore. When you pay for something and donât get what you were expecting, itâs perfectly acceptable to be upset about it. That would be like going into a restaurant and ordering a steak well done and they bring it to you rare; obviously you would be unhappy with that and send it back and ask for a new one. [/quote]
I agree that the disparity between what was expected and what we got is an issue from a quality standpoint, especially when you buy something sight unseen. If enough people have complained about it, and I think you and I agree that enough people have, then it should be revisited.
Some of the S1 retros look okay and some of them are really rather lacking from a visual standpoint. We differ though on Thunder and Orchid in certain ways, which is fine, to each his own. I actually respect MS for their approach in these instances.
[quote=âCrazyLCD, post:25, topic:2071â]
You also have to look at the discrepancies in their logic when it comes to suggested themes like showing too much of a womanâs butt. Take Sadira for example where her butt is all out there including her being in a thong and panties in her classic costume; why is that okay but making sure the classic costume for an iconic character like Orchid is done well or accurate is not? [/quote]
To be fair, Sadiraâs thong is covered by a cloth in the front and back a decent amount of the time. Had Orchid received the concept art look for her retro, it wouldâve been cheeks all the time. Was it that specifically that crossed the line with MS? Maybe Sadiraâs outfit pushed the envelope, but Orchidâs pushed it too far? I donât know. I donât work for MS, so I canât say.
For all I know, maybe they just thought it didnât look good, or that it looked silly having her cheeks out all the time, whereas for Sadira, her outfit comes together as a full look that I think works well as an overall style. Orchidâs wasnât visually appealing from a stylistic standpoint. Not to me, at least. I thought it looked like a silly relic of a bygone era, but thatâs just my opinion.
[quote=âCrazyLCD, post:25, topic:2071â]
What about Maya, why does her retro costume have short hair as apposed to long hair like in KI2; is her having long hair too suggestive of a theme -_-[/quote]
Again, I agree here. I donât know if itâs that they didnât want to take the time to fully redo straight hair, so they just gave her short dreds instead or if that was a Kevin Bayliss style decision. My guess is that the former perhaps lead to the latter? Either way, it gives the apperance of a cut corner, even if that might not have been the case. Iâm with you on that one, though itâs certainly possible that they either didnât have the time or perhaps there was some issue with the model as to why it couldnât have long straight hair, or maybe they just thought she should always have dreds. Who knows.
Yeah, I canât fault your logic here, man. If youâre going to do something, do it well. Maybe there were time constraints, maybe they just werenât a huge priority⊠I donât know. The point is that theyâre in the game. MS/IG thought enough of retros to have Kevin Bayliss come back and do season 2âs looks, and part of me thinks that may have been at least somewhat in response to the reaction to the season one retros.
If thatâs the case, even a little bit, then it shows theyâre at least aware of a lack in quality in this area. So it shouldnât be a âwe did that already, itâs done, letâs keep moving forwardâ attitude when it comes to content. If something was done, and it didnât turn out well, regardless of whether it was DH or IG, then it should be brought up to the high standards of the rest of the game.
Superior quality throughout shouldnât be a goal on a go forward basis alone when youâre talking about a complete product like KI. Theyâve been VERY responsive when it comes to many parts of the game and while season one retros might not be super high on the list of priorities, touching some of these up should still be on the list.
Man⊠I REALLY want that Sabrewulf pic on the right hand side to be his actual retro. The glowing eyes, better, less patchy looking fur, though Iâd also like for him to be not quite so bright blue.
His original looks were more of a steel color as opposed to a light bluish look.
Sure, his KI2 look might have a little more of a dark blue tinge to it with a near white type of look on his chest, but either of those are still a good deal better than what weâre currently seeing. It also wouldnât be the worst thing to switch the KI1 vest for the KI2 shorts and belt, as he looks kinda ridiculous from his knees up to his stomach.
Either way, thereâ still a good deal of work that could be done on the dog, and while I know IGâs busy with season 3 stuff, itâd be awesome if touching up season one retros was on their list of things to do.
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