Yeah, I think that’s a good assessment of casuals. Some might consider casuals to be people that don’t follow the tourney scene, but I think there’s a large layer of people between what you describe as casuals and what others might. I just think that there are a lot more MK players that don’t fit in to this camp of casuals as you describe them.
Yeah, I think that’s another layer. I’d still argue that there’s a good layer in between that and casual, but I hear what you’re saying.
I’m not saying that it should be disregarded outright, but is it certainly indicative of something? That’s kind of the problem with anecdotal evidence. It may or may not be indicative of anything, especially given how small the sample size is that we’re talking about.
While relying on studies as gospel can be potentially dangerous, I think it’s even more so to rely completely on the opinions of a few people and then extrapolate them to a few million or more. But that’s just my opinion.
I cannot stand the disputes. We’re all gamers and FG nerds… why can’t we just share in that commonality rather than find a reason to hate on someone else’s specific preferences. It’s juvenile.
@ShabuWL I don’t want to pick a fight with you, because much of what you say is true. But we need to have an agreed definition of success if we are going to agree on what is successful. Your definition - and I know you didn’t say this directly, is essentially “is the game popular with people who traditionally play Street Fighter.” That is the mainstream FGC, the streamers and the video makers. That’s a fine definition, because it encompasses the things that matter to you. But you have to acknowledge that it is definitely a definition of success that favors SF titles, by definition.
Personally I think Sales are the most unbiased method of evaluating success. I know a lot of people fixate in the idea that “there must be some value to the scene because otherwise companies wouldn’t support it.” But frankly, I’m guessing every company out there would trade MKX sales numbers for SFV’s appreciation by “the scene” in a heartbeat. I don’t think every game has to be a sales monster to be successful, but - and I’m saying this as someone who thinks SFV is a good game- you really have to stretch to claim SFV is a sales success. The game has not made it to half of Capcom’s own projections - and as you pointed out for MK, most sales happen early in the games life. So predictions that SFV sales will drastically improve as the game is “completed” I think are not rational.
KI is an unknown in this area. We have no sales numbers and the release model is not traditional. So all we can do is speculate. But I find it very hard to believe we would have a season 3 of KI if it was performing the way SF is in terms of total sales.
I’ve read this statement before, but have never known the source of the claim. I’ve seen a few “1 week sales figures” for regions such as Europe and Japan, but nothing else really.
You think a company would trade higher sales/revenue/profit for a better hardcore scene?
Do you work for a large corporation? hehehehe
NO COMPANY WOULD EVER DO THAT.
As long as the general consensus (ie. general audience) is that it was worth buying, the next sequel will most likely do ok or well.
Its like saying it capcom could change history and instead of Street Fighter, they could have been the creators of World of Warcraft and Diablo INSTEAD of street figher, would they. If they are publicly traded and have an intelligent exec team, they would drop SF in a heartbeat. The billions in revenue from WoW would spit over the entire FGC…
I am in complete agreement with you, so no fight to pick here. Yes, commercially MKX was sure much more successful than SFV, and it’s possible that so was KI, although it was in a better position from the beginning because it was an MS X1 exclusive (and so a flagship of sorts, not prone to cancellation, etc.).
However, when talking about success, I’m not talking specifically about that, especially given WB’s track record - money grab after money grab, barely playable games in the meantime (see MKX online before MKXL). Their marketing machine did its job, MKX brought in tons of cash… and one year later it’s not very popular and “falling off”, as discussed. I’m more concerned with its longevity and variety over time. I think KI is perfectly fine here and still has places to go, and I also think SFV will continue to develop and change for years to come.
I’ve seen it on the boards. In fact, I’m reasonably sure @infilament posted about it. Not someone who normally runs around making stuff up. But if you want to google around you can find similar claims all over the internet. SF V showed up on NPD’s list at #7 for February and then disappeared from the top 10 for March. You can’t actually get the report, so you can’t tell what these numbers mean. VG Chartz has SF V PS4 sales listed at less than 700,000 units. VG Chartz is often criticized for not having good numbers, but without any other evidence what would you suggest we go on?
As far as Capcom’s projections, these are publically available and as early as May last year they projected SF V sales of over 2 million copies. A quick google will yield many articles telling you that much. And again, even a generous estimate of it’s first month sales means you have to make some very unprecedented and optimistic sales projections to think it will meet these expectations.
@StarFyre2000 you misread my point. I am agreeing with you that companies will always choose sales.
I wasn’t insinuating that you were. I’ve read the same figures you posted (or there abouts) on Neogaf, I just haven’t seen any links or anything…and I’m too lazy to Google anything about it myself (I mean, I really don’t care…I’m just slightly interested).
Yeah, I don’t go by VGChartz, so I haven’t even looked on that site. The numbers quoted on Neogaf came from Steam sales and NPD sales (iirc), again though, I haven’t tried to look up any numbers myself, just going off what others have been saying.
I’ve heard about the “2 Mil” number too (Neogaf again), but didn’t know they publicly stated anything.
I guess I just need to use my Google Fu and see what I see.
MKX is on its way out. The complete ‘go ■■■■■ yourself’ to its PC fanbase turned a lot of players off to the game itself. They/we spent months and months waiting and trying to hoping to play the game, only to have it FINALLY be in a semi-playable state, with interesting DLC and improved netcode coming down to the pipe… Only to get a middle finger and then be totally ignored. Not even an apology for spending 80$+ on a game that for almost a year of release PC players were able to play less than half of.
I know that several of my competitive friends walked away from the game even though they had it on console and PC, just because what WB/NRS did was so utterly horsecrap that it turned them off from the game entirely. I know some console only.players that quit over the PC piss-off.
Now, sure, that is anecdotal and doesn’t represent some accurate statistic that we can extrapolate from, but what it DOES do is take a snapshot of a small piece of the community and it’s players. I am not represen little snowflake, which means that I KNOW my situation is mirrored by others. How many others or to what degree I don’t know, but it does represent competitive players leaving the game. Couple that situation with.numerous other anecdotal but different situations that bleed off players and you may have a non-calculable number, but a number none the less.
All in all, I want MKX, SF and KI to.succeed. i personally hate MKX now, but it’s a personal hatred.I don’t want the game to crash and burn for the others that enjoy it.
I found KI because SFV doesn’t grab me like I hoped it would. The game, to me, is too transparent for my.enjoyment. I really.enjoy seeing things in a fighting game that make my mouth drop and me say, holy ■■■■ how did they do that? I didn’t know that was even.possible! sFV doesn’t have this for me. I sussed out most of the tech I seesubject, fiddling in training mode and most of the ‘ahhh’ moments I have are more along the lines of ‘oh a frametrap I missed’ than some super crazy reset I never dreamed up.
This CERTAINLY doesn’t mean that SFV is inferior to KI, or vice-versa. It just means TO ME , KI is the more interesting game.
So the moral of the story is… Ya know, ■■■■■ WB and NRS.
Can’t argue with that. Though I blame WB more so than NRS for this decision, they really did give a big FU to the fans on PC. Not to mention no Fujin: that is at least one of the reasons I don’t play MKX…though I enjoy watching it.
You have your answer right here OP. Like I said, gamers who enjoy different fighting games tend to bash other fighting games. Even in this community you have people bashing SFV and MKX.
Games come and go. MKX is waning in the competitive scene for lots of reasons. Frankly, although I don’t doubt the anecdotes, I suspect the majority of people who bought MKX played it until they beat the story mode, did all the fatalities and then moved on. I’m guessing they pull it out occasionally (like I do) when a buddy comes over and that they are more or less happy with the game. Importantly, most of these people will also buy MK XI, or Injustice 2.
I have mixed feeling regarding the PC release. The improvements in XL were never anything promised when people bought the game. If it hadn’t been improved in console, people would be just fine with it. So I recognize that people are upset but frankly PC got a better deal than PS3 and 360 - which were also promised the game right up until launch.
That’s pretty much what I did. I bought it, played the story mode, played some lobbies with friends, and did ranked. For whatever reason though it couldn’t hold my attention like KI can. Maybe I’m just a sucker for lots of particle effects and the random craziness KI can be at times. Doesn’t make it a bad game just not the game for me.
I have to disagree with you on PC getting a better deal than the last gen consoles. Now, I understand that last gen didn’t even get the game, but there is a difference in a nebulous promise not planning out, vs me spending 80$ along with countless hours in practice and research, to be rewarded with a totally unplayable game for MONTHS. The PC port was in an unplayable state for more of its life than it was playable. I’m talking can’t even run practice mode unplayable. WITH useless netcode.
And now, you saying ‘oh they are adding improvements in MKXL that we were never promised to begin with’ but that’s untrue… MKXL was to put the game in a playable online state and bring the netcode and online experience up to par with what it should have been AT RELEASE. MKXL wasn’t skme awwesome free xpa thing, it was ■■■■ that any game released in this day and age should have had to begin with. A competitive fighter with essentially unplayably bad netcode for a HUGE number of its players? I couldn’t play a friend of mine who lives 4 miles away and this wasn’t a handful of people. It was obviously so bad they had to release a massive patch to fix it. They wrapped that patch in a fancy name so it sounded like it was some great , free X-Pac for the community but all XL was was a patch, adding things that should have been DAY ONE. Then PC players got.the shaft.
I’m sorry but I dont honestly know last gen consoles ‘got it worse’ than PC. You all didn’t get the game. Which does suck, but at least you didn’t bleed 300hrs in training mode and 60$ for the base game plus 20-30$ for DLC only to STILL be unable to play the game, THEN when the fixes FINALLY come down, your time, loyalty and money are thrown out the window and you get shafted, it what is to me, the most blatant and ■■■■ move by a major publisher I’ve seen yet. In all honesty, the fact that it didn’t get more.coverage and general public outcry bothers me. Publishers getting away with this kind of thing is absolutely not OK.
Wait, are you arguing that KI was in a better position to succeed when it launched versus SFV? I just want to make sure that I’m understanding you correctly.
If so, then wow… I couldn’t disagree more. KI was a 20 year old niche fighter launching downloadable only with 6 characters from a developer that no one had heard of and it was launching with a new system that had no install base.
SFV on the other hand has a long history of great games to buttress its reputation, it comes from Capcom, one of (if not) the most well known and revered developers in the genre, and it launched well over a year after the system launched on a system with a larger install base than Xbox One.
I don’t know if you remember KI’s first tourney appearance where they demoed it before the November launch, but there was no counter-breaker mechanic in the game yet (that I can recall) so it was a constant break-fest and fans were more or less laughing and booing it off the stage.
KI’s had to scratch and claw for every ounce of respect it’s received, while Street Fighter basically had to lay an egg out of the gate (which I’d argue it did) to be taken down a notch by reviewers and casuals and I’d still argue that many of the more hardcore fans still fully embrace it, as they should because it has great gameplay and it’s continually evolving.
Was KI a flagship title when it launched? I suppose it depends on how you’d define that term as well. Yes, it was an exclusive. But as a “free to play” downloadable only title… I mean, let’s not get it twisted here. This wasn’t Halo or Gears when it launched.
Sure, it was a step up from say Crimson Dragon and maybe even Ryse (highly debatable given that it had a physical disc release) in terms of launch title profiles, but given everything I said above, I don’t really know how anyone would come to the conclusion that KI had the easier road to big sales over SFV.
Again though, if you’re not saying that at all and I’m completely misreading you here, then my apologies, and forget everything I said above lol.
Even if you still assert that though, I can’t fault you for having an opinion. Don’t think I’m getting upset or anything like that, we’re just talkin!
I agree with you on the Ultra part. I’ve been beating that drum since season 1, but apparently the developers like having the capacity to waste half again the length of the match with the winner pleasuring themselves on the loser.
I love MK. Like legit LOVE the franchise, but even I fell off MKX fast. I played it for a month, and then when the first patch rolled around A WEEK LATE AFTER THE PS4 VERSION on the X1, I just dropped the game. I’ve tried to get back into it, but I think KI has converted me. All in all I think KI is a better game.
I vibe with the way Keits thinks when it comes to balance, and I appreciate the fact that things actually make sense in KI universally across all the characters. In MKX, things vary from character to character. There are different rules for different characters even if they are in the same situations. It’s stupid…IMO.
It was for me. For that matter, I think many people here chose to buy an X1 JUST for KI.
Nah. Ryse was MS’s flagship launch title year 1. KI was…there. Phil Spencer kind of alluded to it in a recent interview, where he essentially said many higher-ups were inclined to end KI (I suspect after DH was bought by Amazon), but KI was the little engine that could and kept on chugging along even after the Dev switch.
In hind sight, I think it is pretty obvious that KI is/was the best, strongest game of the launch line up by far. KI has defied all the odds since its launch it would seem.
My gripe with season 3 is they changed the game we knew its no longer the original ki we know its not iron galaxys mechanics and honestly i want a more footise based ki all i see is special spams no one i play uses normals into openers
