Too Good To Be True

General Discussion
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Just to try and give a different perspective, this way of training I usually see in paid training sessions of USF4 where they have a feature KI doesn’t have: online training mode.

Ideally we would have this mode and both of you would be playing “for real” but with no consequences as the match will never end. Once your trainer see something wrong he’ll stop (no timer so no problem) and discuss with you what happened.

With an online training mode this is easy. In KI this isn’t easy because even if you turn off the timer eventually one of you will die and have to restart the match. In Exhibition you can just “rematch” but that’s less efficient. Even then it’s not impossible to do in KI.

The problem with this method (comparing to analyze a replay) is that, even if you’re playing in online training mode against someone more experienced, it’s hard for your “teacher” to analyze in real time so he can stop and you both can try and fix the issue. It’s much easier for him to analyze a replay. Your teacher is calm, can pause and go back every moment and create a deep analysis of what just happened.

A casual match (or ideally an online training mode match) is more efficient to FIX issues, not analyze them. Your teacher analyzed something in a replay, identified the problem, told you and now you need to repeat the fixing steps 100 times to remove the bad habit. He’ll help you do this by being the punch bag, or else you would have to create an elaborate recording for the CPU to play and simulate a real match, which is less efficient.

Even then I do see training courses where the teacher will simply fire online training mode and both analyze and help the student fix issues, but I believe they do this more because of time constraints than because of efficiency.

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As others have said, you have the agency to ask any of us for games at virtually any time. You would likely get at least a few takers each time if you did. If you’re the one who wants matches to improve, then it is your responsibility to seek them out - that is no one’s job but your own.

And while some of the players who could probably help you through sets (or casual matches or whatever) might not be huge fans of yours, I’d be willing to bet that most of the lack of the training you say you want is due to you avoiding them, and not the other way around. From my observations of you, you tend to avoid players who can beat you consistently, because you don’t like to lose.

And that’s fine. I don’t like to lose either. But where you have to get better if you want to improve is in being comfortable with losing Geek. Those are the players who can help you, because those are the players who see your flaws and know enough to exploit them. And it is not their job to find you - you’re the one who wants the help, after all.

There’s a guy on the KI FB page who sought out good Hisako players to help train him up, and someone pointed him to me. He shoots me messages every few days and we play 10-20 matches, and then I give him feedback on what he’s doing well and what he needs to work on. Then a few days pass and he messages me again and we repeat the process, and each time I see him better incorporate some of the feedback I’ve given him. He is improving, but he is the impetus for his improvement. I don’t shoot him messages to play games - I don’t need MU experience or to learn tricks with Hisako from him. He’s the one who wants to get better, so he’s the one who drives our interactions.

You have agency in this endeavor Geek. Use it to drive to the solutions that you desire.

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@Dancovich Yes, an online training mode would be ideal, but I’ve used exhibition to teach others hundreds of times, and having to rematch again and again no longer bothers me. As for analyzing the fight as it happens, I have no problem doing it, because I do it all of the time myself when I’m not frustrated. It’s how I primarily learn this game, post-fundamentals. I see what the opponent does or where I made the mistake and I tell myself to try something different, then I do something different to see if it works. Trial and error - not the most efficient method, but it does work.

@STORM179 I have to seek out help? What do you think the entire latter half of this thread has been!? Call me stubborn, but until we actually startup the game, nothing’s going to happen. Talking about it doesn’t fix the issue; applying the solution, however, does. I want real-time interaction! Once I come back from Thanksgiving dinner, I intend to get it from someone, come hell or high-water.

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I wonder if you checked my redesigned tessen idea, also I was wondering if you considered allowing players to customize the colors of the characters they use, it’d be more fun to enjoy their mains, like for example, i’d do a Mai Shiranui color scheme for Maya, a Shadow Jago Color scheme for Kim Wu, and even a Rage color scheme for Jago

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The latter half of this thread has largely been you trying to dictate the terms of your help. Again, you are the one who needs help, which means you’re the one asking to be done a solid. It’s nice if people decide to oblige you (and your request is certainly more productive than the full-side rejections of assistance that comprised the first half of this thread), but really they are under no obligation to do so. If they decide to help you in exactly the manner you demand, then it is purely out of the goodness of their hearts - they owe you nothing, and you are largely not in a position to demand anything.

I didn’t say it before, but my practice matches with the player I mentioned mostly consist of me mollywhopping him for 10 straight games or until the set is done, with only periodic pauses for me to send terse messages along the lines of “anti-air - don’t let me jump in for free” and similar things. He’s a great sport about it, but I can’t imagine it’s super fun. But he wants to get better, so he’s willing to sit there and let me poke as many holes in his game as I can find in 10 matches, all the while sending short missives to tell him to start or stop doing something. I’m sure he’d like to take some games from me, but I’m competitive and don’t like losing, and turn up the heat whenever I think he might take a game off me.

One day this player will take a game from me though, and then he’ll take two, and then he’ll beat my Jago. And then I’ll switch to Sako and we’ll start all over again. But he will be improving throughout that whole process, and as he levels up and earns those wins he will begin to find and prosecute the holes in my game, and we will level up together. Getting better isn’t always about having oodles of fun and getting things the exact way you want them - sometimes you’re just putting your nose to the grindstone so that you can get to the point where you’re able to play freely.

Good. That is the attitude you should have.

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Yes, as I said it certainly can be done and pro players who do paid coaching do this all the time.

But consider this, what is exactly the problem you’re having? Do you already know how to fix the issue but get nervous and can’t do what is required or you still haven’t figured out what to do?

If it’s the latter then having someone watch your replays will help, because most probably your analysis is either incomplete or incorrect. They can analyse your gameplay more deeply and give a better answer as to why you can’t improve in that area.

If you already know how to fix the issue then you just need a sparring partner - someone to simulate the situation over and over so you can do the correct answer 1000x until you fix the problem. In that case asking for a sparring partner to address an specific issue might help, for example:

“Hey folks, I’m having problems getting close to a fireball happy Shago that just keeps my Aganos at full screen distance all the time. I figured I should just be patient, throw some light payload assaults, build meter and get closer to a good distance before trying a shadow ruin or a crouching HK if I’m close enough but no matter how much I try I get nervous and end up throwing full screen shadow ruins that get blocked because my opponent baited them. Can a good Shago practice this matchup with me so I can get rid of this bad habit?”

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No KI fight more entertaining than watching GG fight with his ego :stuck_out_tongue:

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Could always face me, been a while since our last match and my neutral game makes you work.

Granted, I’m not the best player, but I’m sure I can help you gain insight with my type of play-style.

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I played a FT4 against @GalacticGeek to try the “replay approach”. I will upload it later.

This is my suggestion:
-We watch the video
-You (Geek) give us your opinion, your analysis of the set.
-After that, we give you our analysis, to compare if there are differences

As result, you will be aware of more key events of the set, and you could learn from it and improve your gameplay

Ggs

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@GalacticGeek Maybe you should do what I’m doing.

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Hey guys, if I upload those 7 or matches could you help me? There was this one person using kan ra and they were just kicking my az and dancing around me dude, so lame.

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Yep. We would.

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Yep. If you are doing so, I would recommend to do it on another thread. I will create it

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Yeah, we would even with one upload. Don’t give up so easily. You have a forum that doesn’t want anyone to give up. We all want to help you improve, strive to get better. I’ve NEVER seen a forum as loving and open-armed as ours.

THIS, is the reason why people say we are the best FG Community. We all want people to unlock their true potential. That’s why it seems people are always leveling up fast. We are willing to help regardless.

Looking forward to those matches!

@Dayv0, make the thread universal. Call it…

The Replay and Analysis Thread. From there, people can upload sets they felt like they didn’t do well in, and the community can come and give feedback. :slight_smile:

Up to you though. :smiley:

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300 mbps? I have 800kbps, damm

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Don’t want to belabor a point too much, but wanted to give just a few extra points:

Think about how chess players improve their game. Even though chess is a slow-paced game with minutes of thinking in between moves, players who are beginner and want to improve to intermediate must watch replays of their old games (or replays of better players). Simply playing a ton of games and trying to learn “on the fly” is not good enough to actually improve beyond a beginner.

Why is this? Because, during a replay, you do not have the stresses or constraints of a real match. You do not have a clock and an opponent waiting for your move. You can take the chess position to a computer program and get them to advise you on what the best move was. You can try different moves at key points, then play the rest of the match against the computer to see if you would have done better. Even if you are playing a “casual” chess game against an advanced player and he sees a move you do that’s bad, then explains why and lets you take it back (which is kind of the analogous situation to “casual sparring” matches in a fighting game), this is not enough to fully analyze the situation. The mindset of a person playing a real match is far different than the mindset of someone watching a video or reading a forum post.

If you have seen my analysis videos from Bass’s channel, you can see (I hope) the value of doing a replay analysis. I will literally pause the video at a crucial interaction (something you can’t do in a real KI match) and I will talk for like 1 minute about what is going on. I will explain the mindsets of both players. Then, sometimes I will even go into training mode and recreate the situation on stream and test different answers. None of this is possible by playing sparring matches.

Geek, I’ve watched a few of the humorous clips of bugs/punching people through 4 walls that you’ve posted in various threads over the last year or more, and even in those 15 second clips, I can identify some pretty serious areas where you could improve (at the time). I can promise you that the people you play against who beat you regularly don’t need to do research into your strategies to see this. They will play with you for 5 seconds, notice exactly these things that I noticed, and then use them against you without you even knowing it. And none of it is related to lag or bad execution … though sometimes that will affect a match, if you constantly blame your losses on that sort of thing, you will only hamper your ability to improve. Even if 100% of your matches are horribly laggy (which I highly doubt, or else you would not still be playing this game), there are things you can learn about your own play that aren’t related to lag, if you are willing to do a proper analysis, or have someone else do it for you.

But the answer, if you want to be more than just a beginner/intermediate player, is to just simply not hide your head in the ground and pretend every time you get hit it’s someone else’s fault, or the only way to improve is to run sets with people who you can beat. Even if you are willing to play a long set against a strong player and willing to open yourself up to the pain of losing (which nobody finds fun, trust me), and the strong player is willing to stop the match regularly and give you advice (which I imagine is, like, 1 or 2 total players in the entire KI scene), eventually there is only so much you can learn from doing that. And this has nothing to do with your preferred learning habits as a student.

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Ok, I already uploaded the set.
https://account.xbox.com/es-ES/gameclip/60d57a1c-ee8f-4f93-8eac-313284c707bf?gamertag=Dayv0&scid=03a80100-9ff3-46ea-be76-e00e7fe465df

I would really appreciate if @Sasuke99I @STORM179 and @Infilament could give their feedback(among others!)

Do not only analyse Geek, also analyse me please. I’m aware of some of my faults, but with your help, I will be aware of even more ^^

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Oh, I’ll make you aware of your faults, all right. Don’t you worry about that.

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Do you want a giant essay per player or a short but simple thoughts.