Street Fighter V: Arcade Edition

Off-Topic
2970

It does? I’ve been on 5,000 FM the entire time (well, since I completed the one thing that gave me that 5,000 FM) and I’ve played through the arcade ladders for SF1, SFA, SF2 and SF4 with Ken. I also haven’t gained any XP that I can see. Maybe I’m just looking in the wrong place.

On Gamefaqs SFV arcade edition fight money guide, it says that arcade doesn’t give any XP. I’m not trying to prove you wrong by any means, I’m just kinda confused here, since it seems like some modes give you one, the other, or neither and it’s all apparently different than it used to be.

So there’s a difference between character story and the cinematic story mode? I’m assuming the character story is in the cinematic story mode? I’ll have to look at all this when I get off work tonight. I was also under the impression that the story mode was no longer giving out FM since Arcade Edition dropped, but maybe I’m mistaken.

Again, not trying to prove you wrong AT ALL. I don’t know any of this stuff. I’m just trying to figure out how to start earing FM and XP so I can actually buy stuff in the game and one site I look at says one thing, and another seemingly says something else. Oh well. No big deal. Just curious. :slight_smile:

Sorry to jump in on this conversation, but yeah, I’ll never understand why anyone thinks something like that directional pressing is intuitive or worth doing just to get a specific move out, or at the very least a better option than something most players could throw out more easily.

Then again, I also despise charge moves, which is why I don’t use about 60% of the SF roster. That’s fine though, I don’t have to be able to use every character in a fighter, but I look at a game like KI and it makes me wonder why other games seem like they almost need to make me pay a fun tax in the form of weird, non-intuitive directional / button inputs in order for me to do something cool.

I mean, sure, if it’s an extremely damaging move, then yeah, maybe make the start up time slow, like Omen’s Demonic Despair, or leave the initiating character more vulnerable to the defender, etc. Make them have to be strategic in how they roll something out.

But I dunno, maybe that’s just me. I don’t feel like the huge sense of pride for being able to pull off a move or series of moves with super complicated button / directional presses in-match offsets how annoying it can be to try and wrestle with the game’s timing and the controller in order to pull those moves off thanks to forcing such dumpy methods of interfacing with the game on me for reasons passing understanding.

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2971

Yeah Im prob wrong about arcade but yes character story is the little animated story boards and cinematic story is the one you have to down load form the store for free.

I thought fro sure I got a little bit of Fm from doing arcade mode, it could have been one of the 1st missions when AE released…who knows? But I do know that you will never get enough FM to buy the characters and there stages and costumes…NEVER! Just shell out the 29$ and you still wont get the stages or costumes … shitss way over priced!

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2972

For me it depends… if that motion is the only one for that button theres hope and I might use that character, assuming the combos aren’t too tricky… For example in Injustice 1, Lobo had that input but because nothing else overlapped with it and he didin’t have hectic Strings , using his Command throw was surprisingly consistent… but Harley Quin also had that input plus a :arrow_down: :arrow_lower_left: :arrow_left: move that used the same button so with her I kept screwing up her Command Throw. Such a shame… :frowning:

Street Fighter V’s Charge Character’s are implemented with varying degrees of Frustration… for instance Necalli only has One Charge move… but his makes perfect sense, it hurls him across the screen and has one hit of projectile armor, and is not needed for optimal Combo Damage.

F.A.N.G. is abit Trickier but his charge moves are some of the shortest in the game, His normals also compliment his charges because many of them hit twice meaning you get Double Hit Stop, this means you don’t usually need to charge before hand to get his combos to work… but if thats going to be the case then they might aswell just get rid of the Charging altogether. Its more of a nuisance with him because he practically isn’t affected by charging like the others are.

Bison sits squarely in the Middle, in theory… he’s just like F.A.N.G. his Normals basically also link together in ways that don’t require you to charge before hand but the timing is so tight that you never really know if you’ve charge long enough if you try to play him like F.A.N.G. so you’re going to have press :arrow_left: at the same time as your normals to make sure you’re charges are secure… this can be pretty annoying if you’re going up against characters you can’t lock down to keep them from switching sides on you… constantly ruining your charge.

And at the bottom of the Charge Food Chain is Guile… Sigh… Guile’s got so many command normals coming out of his @ss that you cannot use the Any trick to improve charge times. The command normals don’t complinent his Special moves at all, they don’t really link into anything and even if they did you probably wouldn’t have enough time to charge a special move… for the combos that do work they require frame perfect charging and late cancelling. Seriously Guile exists for no reason other than to make feel like crap for liking him.

Yeah even then I think its wrong. Think about it, if you follow this design method to its logical conclusion then what we’re saying is its okay for one character to be significantly better than another character if they are extremely difficult, and sure it won’t be an issue if people keep screwing up his moves, but what if someone is good enough with that character ? Wouldn’t that person have an unfair advantage ?

2973

Okay heres something I don’t get… Why was Ken’s throw loop Nerfed into the Dirt ?

I get that it was annoying as all hell but isn’t the whole purpose of that loop to emphasise the importance of Throw Teching instead of trying to weasel your way out with a Reversal ?

2974

I believe it was a universal change to prevent certain characters from having a dominating advantage against other characters. Naturally, it hurt some characters more than it did others. It’s a fair change from my perspective.

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2975

I am almost 100% in the “remove the execution barrier” camp. The FGC acts like KI’s qcf motion based specials are too easy but 80% of hardcore gamers will struggle to perform them on a gamepad and and experience a level of frustration that actively discourages them from trying to learn a game. When I was 15 and SF 2 was the absolute ■■■■, I sat around mentally practicing fireball motions at the dinner table for six months so I could better wreck my friends at the arcade. But if I hadn’t done that back then, I would never try to learn it now. And why should anyone?

It’s low level fighters that confuse execution with “skill” at fighting games. But the 0-2 crowd at any tournament is entirely people who can execute fireballs and link combos. The interesting part is the decision making. As far as I’m concerned, there is zero difference between watching a 64 hit MvC Combo whether it is filled with qcf and one frame links or whether it’s just jamming one button. For high level players it’s automatic. If I want to see individual feats of dexterity I will watch a contortionist.

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2976

Agreed. Not bragging at all, but I personally find d/f motions easy, however most of my non-fighting game playing friends struggle with it because the movement isn’t nearly as natural as we think it is after years and years of playing. If it’s not a natural movement; rolling your thumb quickly enough and timing the button press, and I’d argue that a lot of SF’s motions that we still use nearly 30 years later aren’t natural. The DP motion? Try explaining that to a non-FG player and see how long it takes them to do it.

Half circles, full circles, double fireball motions for supers, charging moves… I kinda feel like, as far as we’ve gone in to the genre, that one of the reasons why it’s become so niche after it’s initial boom and really sort of stayed that way is because there hasn’t been a ton of evolution over the years, and I think controls can be considered part of that.

Sure, there are some games, especially the 3D fighters that don’t really adhere to SF controls, but it’s not like there are a ton of those out there, and even those games can get really complicated with their d-pad movements and button presses.

It almost feels like substantial parts of the genre are either making sequels for their already established audience, or making new games that feel like call-backs to the good old days to try and lure older fans that loved the genre back then. Maybe I’m mistaken on this. I very well could be. Maybe I’m just hungering for some new experiences that don’t feel like something I’ve played before. Tough to say.

THANK YOU. Exactly! Sure, there’s a small measure of pride in pulling off something extremely difficult control-wise in a match, but how often have I been destroyed while trying to pull that combo off or that move off or whatever? Too many to count.

That might make someone say “git gud,” but to me, and this is just my opinion, having to wrestle with the controller to do moves shouldn’t be what people should have to get good at. The basic tools for winning (the moves that your character can do) should be second nature as soon as possible, as far as I’m concerned.

When you remove 95% of the execution barrier, you potentially have more people playing the game, which is always good for a fighter, but you also have the casual / hardcore divide come from FAR more compelling places like strategy; knowing when to attack and when to defend. Knowing when to use a particular attack or counter attack and how far it reaches. Knowing what’s safe on block and what leaves you open to a counter attack. Knowing that this move strings to that move because you labbed it up or watched videos on it, and those few facets are just the tip of the iceberg.

To me, it’s almost like saying “basketball would be more fun to play if instead of just dribbling the ball toward the basket and shooting, you not only had to avoid carrying the ball or double dribbling, you also had to do two 360 spins every time you wanted to change direction and sometimes you have to walk on your hands and dribble with your feet.” Why the hell would anyone want to play basketball if you created that arbitrary method of controlling the basketball that’s far more difficult then it needs to be?

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2977

I’m glad Zangief and Mika got to keep theirs… especially Mika since she’s been nerfed so deep into the dirt she may aswel be a fossil.

But who struggles against Ken ? I always assumed he was the Under Dog, with his lame fireball and His awful Hit Confirms.

LMAO :rofl: You Know… I always thought that Evo Moment 37 Video was kinda overrated. It gives the wrong impression of Fighting Games.

2978

I just looked into it and Ken was hit harder with his throw changes compared to the rest of the cast. The universal change was an increased change to active frames (from 2 to 3). Ken’s changes were quoted as “the circumstances after landing the throw have changed”, in other words, he gets more pushback after his forward throw. So he was affected more for sure there.

I’d say Ryu right off the bat. Ken has better tools to pressure Ryu with just out of Ryu’s distance. He can get away with a few things from that range as well. I believe he can outright beat Gief because his mobility. I’m sure there are others, but I don’t know Ken all that much.

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2979

Really… Ryu ? Hmmmm I always assumed even in the Corner he could hold his own… but I guess it makes sense… if he’s put into a position where he can’t use his St. Forward then he’s gonna suffer.

As for Zangief… can’t he just Ex SPD out of there ? Unless if its not Throw invulnerable.

2980

Indeed, but it isn’t how Karin’s rekkas work in SFV, nor how Yamcha/Leo’s rekkas work in DBFZ/Xrd. The classical definition is certainly what you said, but I kind of doubt we’ll be seeing that form of rekka again anytime soon - it really is a bit of an input fossil.

Dial-a-combo? Or are you just referring to wide input buffers?

Will they have an advantage? Yes. Will it be a particularly unfair one? No. KI does this as well, where the two best characters in the game (Mira and Aria) are generally more technical/difficult to use than the rest of the cast, but are extremely powerful in the hands of someone who figures them out.

It’s a solid choice when giving characters strong tools to hide the power behind inputs. There’s a reason Jago’s DP hits like a truck, while Cinder’s only tickles. You may indeed like Guile as a character, but I can pretty confidently say the character’s tools would not work as is if you removed charge time or changed the inputs - boom recovery is simply too fast, and flash kick covers too wide an arc. You could certainly change his controls, but in doing so you’d also need to touch up multiple facets of who he is as a character.

There are lots of ways to add variety in a FG cast. Input differences are just one of them. So long as you’re not reaching KOF levels of execution requirements, I think it’s all good. Not all characters are meant to be played by all people.

2981

I think that’s what I was thinking of, yeah. Thanks. ^^

2982

This is what they should be doing.

From the perspective of a normal human being its not really variety if the move is so difficult it can’t be used properly.

They should warn you about that before you buy the game… hell… it might even increase the game’s popularity… I mean look at Dark Souls.

Street Fighter V: Prepare To Get RSI

Honestly… this seens kinda lazy, those noves are just more powerful versions of what Ryu has. The mistake was making them so game breakingly powerful that they had to nerf them on the player’s end.

2983

Why? Why should they reduce a character’s cool options in this instance? Street Fighter is replete with shotos who throw hadokens and have DP’s…why should Guile’s tools be homogenized in an engine that is already quite homogenous?

I’m a big fan of easier inputs - I think CAM was a wonderful addition to Killer Instinct and I think rekkas should be single button presses. DP motions should be reserved for powerful moves that you want to discourage overuse of, and even those should have generous shortcuts and input leniency. KOF nonsense-inputs like Geese’s super are unnecessary and a hindrance to people learning the game.

That said, are you truly prepared to argue that down (charge)->up+K is too difficult an input? Or back (charge)->forward+P? Is that really the execution hill you want to die on? That Guile is too difficult for anyone to learn? Genuine question. :thinking:

One: Guile doesn’t break the game. Like, at all. Two: you’re kind of answering your own question. If Guile’s booms and flash kick are basically what Ryu and the six other shotos have, then what exactly is the merit of nerfing his tools to do the exact same thing in the exact same way as all those other shotos? What compelling reason is there to homogenize the cast such that the exact same mid-range strategy you use against Ryu or Ken now works against Guile?

You would be removing interesting gameplay options and play styles (true zoning/defensive wall) to get just another generic shoto. That’s a really bad trade IMO, particularly if your rationale for doing it is “charge motions are too hard.”

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2984

^^^^^^^
This exactly.

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2985

I wouldn’t say it’s overrated, but it is a little misunderstood. @Infilament I think had a nice analysis of this somewhere. The ability to parry that super is not really the most difficult execution Daigo has ever done in a tournament. It’s onviously impressive to be able to perform so well in a clutch situation. The impressive part (as I understand it) is that you can’t really start the sequence on reaction so you have to be mentally prepared and anticipate the super. If you watch the sequence leading up to the actual parry you can see that Daigo is preparing to catch the super while still playing neutral effectively. Against Justin Wong who is a fantastic player in his own right. So at least part of moment 37 is a demonstration of incredible fighting game ability because it involves intimate knowledge and understanding about what’s happening, what’s likely to happen next, and what you should be doing about it. And again, doing all this under the hot lights after a mentally exhausting day.

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2986

He’s already Homogenised. Its merely a matter of Magnitute… besides if people want to keep OG Guile then they can have him… I’m merely asking for alternate controls.

LoL… yes actually it is. Whenever trying to do down charges raw I get an unintentional jump… it doesn’t happen often but it is a consequence of that motion… same thing with SPD the orignal Tiger Knee and Fei Long’s Chicken Wing (Cammy’s Hooligan Flip)… Grounded Special moves with upward motion inputs are prone to execution errors.

The problem with Guile is not the Special Moves but the Normals that are paired with them… unlike Bison and F.A.N.G. Guiles has a crap ton of Command Normals… I think he’s got one for every button and they are all rubbish for combos… thats what his Neutral Buttons are for… trying to Cancel into specials from those is so excruciatingly tight that I’ve only managed to do it once…

He’s already Homogenised… stronger but fundementally the same… perhaps they could overhaul him altogether.

I’m trying to make the most of this whole mess Capcom has made… perhaps they should have trying to come up with new moves for these characters rather than repurposing the old ones by putting them in Steroids.

2987

Can you elaborate?

2988

-giggles immaturely-

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2989

He’s Ryu on Steroids…