Going off of the recently closed #BelieveinKeits, I think there’s a discussion to be had about who the devs listen to, who they should listen to, and the divide between pros and casuals, because it seems like more and more lately, if you read this board, you find a mostly positive and upbeat community, but if LCD is to be believed (and I have no reason not to take him at his word), the vibe among many pros is quite different.
According to Larry:
Now, I follow some of the devs on Twitter and a few pros, but a vast majority of my interaction is through this site so I’m curious… Do any of you have a feeling of the general sentiment toward KI at the moment? Pros and casuals alike? Larry mentioned some casuals being put off by season 3. IS there a general sentiment? Because as much as I’m either posting or lurking around here, I see a lot more positive stuff than negative.
So that alone leads me to wonder just how great the divide is between pros and casuals where it pertains to this game and is that an issue? Should it be an issue?
Pros make the game competitive. They keep a game alive. Casuals make the game possible. They give birth to the game. Casuals can become pros and keep the game alive after giving birth to it. Without casuals, the game wouldn’t go off because of lack of profit.
Yeah I know the difference between the two, but I think the normal script is thrown out a bit for KI because it’s not just casuals giving the game it’s initial bump or becoming pros. The seasonal format means that this game is constantly trying to expand and lure new fans, so both sides seem to matter long term, whereas normally in fighting games, the casuals are the initial sales and the hardcore keep the game going long term (at least form my experience).
But my question is more in terms of the divide between the two as it pertains to the general sentiment toward KI right now and how much that might indicate a division between the two groups. It seems (to me), like casuals are pretty happy with the game, while, at least according to Larry, hardcore players aren’t as much. So I guess I’m just wondering why the difference in opinion and what does that mean for the game?
You should appeal to both. You need to get guaranteed money from the pros by the seasons. This helps a lot. You should also appeal to casuals to get more people in and money. Personally, I think they are more casuals than pros in KI at the moment. THey aren’t enemies though. They should work together.
I think the divide comes when people use the word “casual” in a negative way. When you start disregarding people’s opinions or think that what they say has any less meaning just because they aren’t placing Top 8 at every tournament or even going to tournaments you create a divide. Obviously I think the professional players know what they are talking about and we should value opinions, but the attitude that some have that their opinions > everybody elses puts people off.
Casual and competitive players are both important.
Every time a casual tries to “Bridge the gap” by interacting with Pros on Social media, they get assaulted with:
You dont know what your talking about, scrub, delete this, etc…
Every time a Pro tries to “Bridge the gap” by interacting with casuals on Social media, they get assaulted with:
Why should we listen to you? You’r opinions arent special. Winning means nothing, etc…
Both sides have Superiority complexes over the other (as is typical in almost every FGC personality).
Every now and then, someone will make a good discussion where both pros and casuals get together and talk about “unity”, and “community”, and all that other fairy tale stuff, but in reality, change rarely ever comes from it, and a week later, we are back to the same old story again.
In a game where the only thing that matters is “Being better than others”, combative mindsets are destined to dominate. (No matter how much people try to cover it with charades of “respect”.)
(every day i watch examples of this stuff happen, so im really not going to argue it. I will not reply to any “white knights” trying to promote peace where it doesnt exist. most likely, what you would say will just re-enforce my argument, so its really not worth trying. )
Would have thought casuals and pros alike would dislike things that obscure the visuals like Raams instinct.I still don’t see how making it hard to see anything helps him anymore than his opponent.
the input of dedicated players is supremely valuable because they’re the ones that actually figure out how to play the game and post tutorials, match videos etc. that allow everyone else to catch up
people that just go to tournaments and don’t interact with anyone are obviously not important to the game’s playerbase, but the lab monsters/streamers/youtube channels do great things for the game’s community
especially for KI, a game with a severely lacking tutorial and no combo trials/mission mode/full story mode
When did casual become such a nasty term? Back in the days before anything like esports, was every fan of arcade games and the like a filthy casual? There was no such thing as a pro gamer after all, so where was the divide? It didn’t matter how good your high score was, a gamer was a gamer. (Pretend I’m saying this in a “get off my lawn” old man voice if it helps)
Is the last part of your post sarcasm? I think ki has one of the best tutorial in the dojo and they have the combo breaker training thing as well. If it was sarcasm it went over my head and you can carry on lol
I think at this point, the devs know who to listen to and perhaps more importantly, on what particular topics they should listen to them about. I think that last part is key when we’re talking about input and who would have priority.
If you’re talking about gameplay balance, specific character issues, and more micro level issues, I think that more experienced players and pro players can give incredibly valuable insight.
The problem is that some people seem to believe that this is the only insight of value to give because, well, it’s a fighting game and the fighting matters most.
Well, yes and no. Obviously I care about the game being balanced well, as I don’t want to feel as though I’m in a matchup that’s unintentionally unfair. I also want characters’ moves to have utility and a purpose and to serve their overall playstyle.
But I also want moves that are fun, I want characters that look cool, I want a story that compels me to keep going and learn more, I want interesting stages, slick menus, graphics that are polished and an aesthetic that’s sharp among many other things and quite honestly, you don’t have to be someone with a micro level of understanding on each character to know a good deal about these other facets or appreciate them at a high or even low level.
All of these things go in to making a game that’s compelling for all audiences, so in my mind, everyone has something to contribute, and it’s up to the devs to distill that information where possible, filter when needed, or disregard completely in favor of their own vision and that goes for pros and casuals alike.
Because Raam is considerably less visible than his opponent. It makes him decently hard to break when he’s in instinct (while he’s doing passive potential damage to you, which also pressures you into making poor decisions), while the opponent is still pretty visible throughout. The kryll Storm VFX might not be unambiguously good for Raam, but they’re definitely tilted in his favor.
In all honesty, the negativity is likely from (as it usually is) a very vocal minority. This is due to a number of reasons, such as social media providing more exposure, people being more prone to speak when they’re feelings are negative as opposed to positive and that we, as onlookers, are more prone to recognize/remember negative things than positive things. All of these lend to the ability for a minority to seem much larger and concise than the majority.
That being said, I believe the OP is right and that there has been more positivity about the game in Season 3 than negativity. I also think Larry, no real offense intended, is full of it saying “people” are disappointed with the way season 3 went. Some people were, yes, but not most, or all, or just people as an overarching group. I, for one, actually believe in Keits because IG overall has done phenomenal work in Season 3.
Yeah, I’ve got to call BS. Most of the people I’ve encountered throughout the DFW FGC that watch tournaments do it for matches but also because they know and like certain players out there. Heck, I’m man enough to admit I fanboy’ed when I saw Nicky at Absolute Battle. Do I think he’s some sort of celebrity? No, but it was cool to see him in person and be like, “Hey, that’s Nicky! I learned all my Fulgore play from watching him! Awesome!”
I think he just meant that they’re important for that one thing, but otherwise, they’re not important. Not saying I agree with him and I don’t mean to put words in his mouth, but the implied value in his estimation still seems to be there regardless.
I also agree with you that they’re both important, though after seeing Liger’s tweet, I kinda wish that some pros could be a bit less snobby. By that same token though, I think there’s a bit of reverse snobbery toward pros as well. None of it’s constructive in my estimation, but it is what it is.
