Kilgore tech/strategy thread

#1

Since there’s no official thread for this, I’m gonna kick it off. I’ll update the OP whenever I find something new that’s notable. I didn’t get to watch the whole reveal stream so I might repeat some stuff that’s already known.

First off, normals. Kilgore is definitely lacking in plus-on-block normals. Your only options there are 5LK (5 frame startup) and 2MP (7 frame startup.) Despite their appearance, 5MK and 2MK are not lows. His only lows are 2LK and 2HK. In juggles, 5HK is (like fulgore) a hard knockdown that launches to fullscreen, but his pops the opponent up much higher, giving a longer knockdown. His gunshot normals are all unsafe, and do very little damage–your goal in using them is purely to keep your opponent at a distance and build meter and heat.

He can convert combos from gunshots with shadow gun dash, but the damage is very low and it’s breakable even from range, so I wouldn’t recommend this unless you have a large amount of PD built up.

Shadow flip isn’t active until fairly high in the arc, so it’s more difficult than it first appears to cash out with it. You’ll need to juggle from 2MP, 6HP, or a high-spin speed DP. Overall shadow DP is a much more reliable cashout.

The way overheat duration works is a little unintuitive. Using your gunshots actually makes it end faster. Firing the guns constantly, it lasts about 8-9 seconds, but not firing them at all makes it last about 17 seconds. Sticking to using missiles and flips (which are both safe in instinct) for pressure will maximize the length of your overheat, but LP guns is even on block when overheated and only gunshot moves apply burnouts, so for your best damage you’ll be cutting time off your overheat.

Kilgore has very little use for meter in normal combos. His shadow linker does pitiful damage and his shadow enders aren’t particularly strong. His go-to uses of meter, imo, should be shadow rockets, cooldown, and shadow DP to cash out high-PD juggles.

Hilariously, when overheated his optimal(?) counterbreaker combo is heavy double, launcher ender, 2HK/2MP, OTG with LP guns, shadow DP (50%). In instinct, he can follow up LP guns with any gun dash, THEN shadow DP (64%). Doing it early will allow you to side switch, doing it late keeps the same side. If you have instinct but haven’t activated you can do heavy double, instinct cancel, heavy double, THEN the instinct-extended combo–this bumps the damage up significantly (72%).

IMPORTANT! The bullets from his DP ARE BREAKABLE. DP juggles should be easy to break on reaction, so you’ll need to represent other options often enough that people will be guessing.

I’m struggling to see a good use for cooldown ender. It would be useful for regaining space if the last hit knocked down, but as it is it puts you back into zoning mode while the opponent is still close.

Pay attention to the meter gain on flip while overheated. That move is going to be seriously strong as your go-to offensive tool.

OTG guns can be used after a hard knockdown or when your opponent doesn’t quickrise. I wouldn’t recommend it in the latter case because it has long, punishable recovery if they DO quickrise. Point is, when you get a knockdown you need to decide between missile setplay or OTG for spin speed/PD. The latter is probably always the correct decision in matchups where kilgore has problems keeping the opponent out.

Shadow missiles after OTG guns is a hard knockdown, so if you’re willing to burn the bar you can get 3 gun moves off a throw to build heat–the throw itself, the OTG, then a second OTG after shadow missiles. From base heat, it does about 17%. Not great damage for a bar, but the utility of it may be indispensable in some matchups.

Gun dash as an opener is unbreakable, meaning 6HP > 5HK > gun dash is a great offensive sequence that can take the place of a traditional opener.


[details=Click here for all the posts with videos, as well as infil’s post on counterbreaker combos.][quote=“Rolly2891, post:32, topic:17427, full:true”]
Here’s the 1 chance 50%. I will post a vid with all my other juggles later.


[/quote]

[/details]

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One Chance Breaks and Instinct Tech (Video)
Kilgore Newb Notes
#2

Also, they deal 0 chip damage, and they can be blocked both crouching and standing

2 Likes
#3

When I get home and play him some online I’ll definitely be contributing to this post.

#4

OMG eff his buttons, amirite?

M&H.Flips can cross up. Heat Flips are safe but SC’ble.

It seems like M.Missle is for zoning, and H.Missile is for dirt on KD w/ Flips. Gotta work on some jank frame data gathering. I’ll try my best.

I’m so excited!

Now if only we could have a community fund for Lab improvements that would make learning how to play these expensive ■■■ characters less of a huge pain in the expense-hole, that’d be fabulous. /rant (soz)

#5

I just checked, none of the flips are overheads. The dummy set to block all stands up to block them, but you can block them crouching.

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#6

His j.hp isn’t an overhead (or mid whatever you want to call it). His chain gun dash also deals 0 chip. Instinct chain normals build ALOT of meter very quickly.

Shadow chain dash is projectile invincible BUT loses it post freeze. Still throw invincible though. Shadow metal ball is fully invincible for a few frames then goes into projectile invincibility.

His L dp hit directly above his head (like’s jago’s l Dp). His H.dp has got quite the range on it.

Overheat L chain dash seems to be -3 on block and overheat metal ball is -1. He can also kill himself (aka end a roun/match) with his teleport. If you are hit by the malfunctioning teleport you can quick rise but kilgore cannot.

Also using his gun chain normals as manuals aren’t breakable. His 2mp, and chain normals are also openers.

#7

His damage is ■■■, but he has solid punishes and one-chance damage.

F+HP, F+HP xx light Rockets, heavy manual xx damage ender is 30% one-chance with no previous PD (and gives perfect spacing for a cheeky MK ball crossup on a quick-rising opponent)

If overheating, he can do F+HP, F+HP xx Shadow Rockets, HP juggle to get ~28% unbreakable PLUS stack on fire PD.

He also has essentially a full screen, unbreakable 1-bar confirm for Ultra.

St.HP or Cr.HP xx Cooldown cancel Heavy Gun Dash xx Ultra is unbreakable.

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#8

I guess his gameplay are based on zoning. Like Glacius for example.

#9

Apart from incremental damage increase on Gun HP’s, I haven’t noticed any other incremental effects (VFX notwithstanding) - BUT I AM NOT OBSERVANT - READ CLIMAX’S POST BELOW.

Heat Dash gets a damage buff and a range debuff.

Heat DP gets a damage buff and a jugglability buff.

Heat Flip gets a damage buff and becomes safe.

Heat Flicker becomes dangerous to user, in that it adds a disadvantageous self-knockdown and true self-damage. That’s okay, just reserve Flicker for Cool.

Heat Missiles explode early. L.Missiles become about halfscreen, M.Missles likewise explode halfway to their reticle, and H.Missles explode offscreen above you. Yuck.

I understand the value of Exhaust now - it seems like Heat trades vortex for damage upfront. The trick is to weave between them, getting your damage with Heat and Exhausting into setplay to either cashout the PD stacks or maintain momentum back into Heat.

Also @LeoFerreis ILY, man. Dr. Science Kitchen on the scene! XD

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#10

Definitely not. His gunshots have more hits and build more more meter as he raises his spin speed, and moves that juggle with gunshots (e.g. DP) have more juggle time to combo with.

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#11

Incrementally though? Like, if you press st.HP once and then DP you’ll have more time than before you pressed st.HP? And after, if you press st.HP again and repeat, you’ll have more time (and meter gained) yet? All of these aspects improve incrementally on the way to Heat?

I tend to miss the subtle stuff, so thank you for having the observant eyes. I’ll be wrong about stuff, you correct me, I make minor edits to my previous posts in case would-be-learners don’t read entire threads, and everyone benefits. Yay! sorry, I know repeatedly correcting a person is annoying, so I’m sorry for being that guy.

#12

Yeah, it’s incremental. I think they mentioned that later on in the stream.

#13

Oh, no kidding. I had a doctor’s appointment during the stream, so I missed it. Haven’t found the archive yet, but I haven’t looked either - I’ve been too busy being a lab-doofus w/ Kilgore. Speaking of which…

Something I glossed over and didn’t mess with at all during his SL pseudo-beta is L.Barrage OTG that I just noticed going through his movelist. I’m not sure of what-all you can connect it off of, but cancelling into Exhaust or EX.Missile can yield some pretty neat OTG-to-cashout situations, especially if you’ve got a little KV left to play with. The shots from L.Barrage are unbreakable, so cancelling directly into DP will not cashout. Like his Gun buttons, I’m pretty sure you need meter to convert the OTG into anything meaningful, but I could be wrong. Actually, seems like 2-bars to cashout off of an OTG. His meter-gain is pretty good though… Depending on what the PD’s looking like, it could be worth it. This is KI after all.

Insofar as pressure is concerned, it seems like he can frametrap with L.Missile from about max st.HK range, but too close and you can get counter-jabbed. Just within one space you can trap jabs w/ your own, just a hair outside of one space and you can trab jabs w/ st.MP.

#14

If it wasn’t obvious, the Reticle is for setting up a juggle for the next combo or protecting one’s ■■■ against teleporters/cross-up heavy characters, not “sniping” head-on.

Perhaps, forcing certain opponents out of position head-on.

#15

I’ll add info about OTG guns to the OP in a sec.

1 Like
#16

Exhaust is crazy good. You can also exhaust cancel missiles without connecting with the opponent, being able to cancel as early as 1/0/2 missiles depending on strength. So with a bar you can throw out shots and missiles fairly safely and react to any attempt to punish. You can also take more time with the reticle when aiming missiles (particularly mediums) as if need be you can quickly release the button and input exhaust.

2 Likes
#17

Yeah, LK/HK missiles with exhaust are an excellent use of a bar in instinct. Their use might be a little more limited outside of instinct though, because you lose all your heat and thus won’t be able to capitalize on the approach very well.

#18

Heating vs non heating sounds like it will be MU dependent. That’s what they said on stream anyway.

#19

To me it feels like the end goal is always going to be to get heat and go hard to build big PD. The main question is how much of a priority it is–in some matchups you can afford to take your zoning a bit slower and spend a while playing the lame game, in others getting heat early is vital.

#20

Vs say…raam…probably just play keep away all game or at least a vast majority of it. Vs say…kan-ra where I would get in his face.