Okay, good. How would you suggest the developers go about weaving that in to the current game? Would you give more straight forward characters more ways to deal with crazier characters? How would you force the ones that ignore footsies to play footsies or play a more neutral oriented game?
I don’t know how they could just “bring back season one” without drastically reworking several characters. Assuming that’s not overly realistic, are there certain things you’d do to help bring some of the crazier characters in line with the rest of the roster?
Also, just one last question, why does KI need to be more of a footsie / neutral oriented game in your mind? Don’t we have that in other fighting games? What’s the benefit of forcing that in to a game that doesn’t really have that as much right now?
None of those questions are rhetorical, by the way. Just trying to figure out a bit more where you’re coming from in terms of improving the current gameplay. Hoping you’ll drill down to specifics as much as possible on what you’d fix and how.
I really like that Instinct xx reversal exists, but I’m not a big fan of reversal xx Instinct, or for that matter any move that is normally unsafe being cancelled into Instinct on block to become massively plus.
Instinct is really strong in this game, to the point where getting opened up is nearly an inevitability in some cases. That’s fine, but I think that very often the ability to Instinct cancel on block acts as an wide funnel towards that very strong offense. If you knock Eyedol down, he’ll DP xx Instinct, now he gets a huge head start to a bunch of plus offense. If Orchid’s on the other side of the screen, then she’ll do slide xx Instinct, now you have to block a bunch of safe mixups. I don’t even mind things like Jago DP xx Shadow Endokuken or Glacius PP xx Shadow Hail, provided that they are moderately minus on block or punishable in some way.
Of course if you removed Instinct on block, then anything cancelled into Instinct would give you an OS that leaves you very plus on hit. However, being very plus on hit is not that big of a deal in KI, where for the most part the best thing you can get is an additional link of your choice into something that is breakable. I think a change like this could help steady the pace of the match a little bit, which can sometimes feel like it just flows from one player’s Instinct to the other’s with not much in between.
Keep in mind that I’m not talking about this as a change to the current game, as certain characters (like Gargos) are designed around Instinct cancelling on block. This is more of an idea as if either a new game was being made, or if the current one was re-imagined with the power of hindsight.
Otherwise, I don’t think I would change anything major about the gameplay. I think the vast majority of additions/changes over the years have led to a great combat system.
I just asked the same question in the LCD thread where he posted the same comment. I’m curious as to why the game needs to be that way. What’s the benefit or advantage to toning down “crazy” characters and forcing them all to play this way. I’m envisioning Street Fighter V with KI’s combo system and I don’t see why that would be desirable at all, but maybe that’s just me.
In the second case, some could argue punishing normals isn’t just a “black and white” punishing the recovery frames, but punishing a whiff because of recovery, poor spacing, good reads, etc.
IMO KI allows all it craziness because there is a system to make it fair: the combo system
No matter how many times you open your opponent, if he outplays you in the combo system (he breaks you often and you don’t break him well) you lose
KI without craziness would be boring to watch. We would be watching a sf match, but instead of seeing an optimal punish when someone gets opened, we would see it being broken often, so the game pace is slow, characters would have to take a lot of openings to lose all their health, and wouldn’t be fun to watch
Guess breaking would be favored (as it was in s1), but people can’t remember forr their lifes
Limit the amount of combos you can do, so you can’t just rinse and repeat.The only way to get longer combos, would be to incorporate manuals. Limit what moves give you access to the open auto system. Everything is a freaking opener. No more long ■■■ combos from a simple poke. You’ll be able to do short combos with normals, but if you want more than that, you’ll have to either use a manual, or a launcher. I feel like this will make the game feel less random and chaotic…
That’s the impression that I’ve always had, which is why I enjoy characters like Gargos, Kan Ra and Cinder in this game so much. The combo system is such a massive mitigating factor for every character IMO.
I think it’d be boring to play as well. As much as I enjoyed the first season, which I think had more characters that would be considered “straight forward,” I think the game got really fun when they started breaking rules with characters (on purpose, I think that there were tons of issues with S1 characters not obeying certain aspects of the game’s systems).
But yeah, wanting KI to be more like SF, which is at least some of what I’m reading into here when people say they want more footsies and neutral game, doesn’t sound like it fits this game. But I’m still curious as to how people would try to weave that in more without hurting what makes the game unique to begin with, or do they simply not care about the unique aspects of the game? Tough to say.
Why? What don’t you like about them and how do you think it’d improve the game?
How would you do this and what would you hope to accomplish with it?
Combo breaking or guess breaking? I’m assuming you’d want to narrow the breaking windows, but isn’t that, especially at low levels, kind the point of the fighting system? Shouldn’t people just counter break more to train or discourage opponents from mashing breaker all the time? Curious what you think.
I never waited more than 1 minute for a match, even on exhibition, since i took the game on PC release.
There was on exception: When my tibero fucked up.
I don’t see a reason to even have them, they seem to only reward the better players when they are already good at playing. Eliminating stagger and flipout would make the game less stressful.
KI season 1
Both but especially guess breaking. I’m thinking that combo breaking should somehow be tied to meter.
Then I would always do heavy doubles to deal you max damage. Once you deplete your meter, I would go full heavies (linkers and doubles) for +60% damage with any char, some of them +80%
You doesn’t seem to remember a lot of s1 sins.
Like shadow enders dealing a fixed amount of damage, independent to ender lvl. So one chancers into shadow ender was the best strategy. So guessing was favored [quote=“VladKravich, post:59, topic:20230”]
I don’t see a reason to even have them, they seem to only reward the better players when they are already good at playing
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That’s how videogames work: the better you are, more strategies and tools you exploit and use. Less options is worse