I know I’m in here late, but I want it on the record, holy crap I feel bad for Keits. I don’t know what was said to him, but to hear his usually confident and cheerful tone on twitter, especially since he’s on that dedicated Overwatch kick, change to this depressive tone, it’s disappointing to think our community is this disrespectful. I see it a lot in ranked, where almost every match has taunting, teabagging, and people with mics on shouting hateful stuff all the time. It’s even worse when guys who represent the best of this game at tournaments can’t even be bothered to show mannerisms consistent of higher levels of sportsmanship and good play, as well as the decency of human beings.
I can’t really add anything of value much other than what’s been already said better by some like @Infilament and @TheNinjaOstrich. So rather than make my own wall of text I’ll just say that I’m with you guys on this issue.
And if @TheKeits is by some chance here to see this, we care about what you do Keits. There are some bumps on the way, but you guys always manage to smooth them out real well. I really enjoy Season 3 and have given Rash and RAAM some serious playtime in now, (Rash on a friend’s account anyway) and really hope you can regain that creative spirit. We do have our criticisms at times, but at the end of the day, yours and the team’s willingness to listen to us has made this the best fighting game experience I’ve ever had, and I honestly think that without KI, I’m probably gonna be done with fighting games. I don’t know as I could go back to Street Fighter.
May the road rise to meet you, there are people here who appreciate the work you do.
The chat last night was a sad state of affairs and reminds me why I never read chats on any other game. Sadly it seems that will have to be the way for Ki now in future too.
It’s very sad to see the community feeling so entitled (some of which i think is out of passion and wanting whats best for the game, some of which is just complaining idiots that you get in every community) that they are actually ruining something great and very unique that KI had with the devs.
It’s time for the good guys in this community to step up and speak out.
If our leaders are being less than leader-like… then it’s time for new leaders.
Thanks to all that have thus far - @Infilament, @GeoffTheHero and @UABass have been at the forefront on Twitter, among others who I’m not sure are on this forum but I appreciate greatly nonetheless.
Honestly. It’s a videogame. We shouldn’t take all of this drama too seriously. I doubt @TheKeits is losing any sleep over it. And he really shouldn’t be.
O I think he is. He stated he was stepping back for a while. You’d be disappointed too if everyone kept telling you, your work and passion is wrong is needs changed. It’s just not on.
If your off the clock,you shouldn’t have to put up with it let alone listen to it.
I haven’t seen whatever stream or chat caused all this uproar yet, but I think it should go without saying that being disrespectful and demanding is completely inappropriate, especially when it’s directed straight to the team through Twitter or Twitch chat, as opposed to here on the forums where it’s (in my opinion) a more neutral situation.
How would you feel if customers you served/helped/supported at your job showed up on your front lawn and started screaming obscenities through a megaphone?
I don’t particularly care how many Pro Stars you have, how many tournaments you’ve placed in, or how long you’ve been a KI fan. Keep your vitriol to yourself, and direct your efforts to the following places;
Requests, suggestions and discussion should be encouraged, rather than aggression, blind anger, and ignorance.
Remember that in the end, KI is a game for those who LIKE it. If you don’t like the game any more and don’t want to adapt or re-learn a character or strategy, kindly leave and go somewhere else. You’re hurting the game and its community by spreading misinformation and your negative opinions whether you mean to or not. This is especially important for high-profile streamers, because people look at you differently than a general KI player.
Encourage new players, work with existing players so both of you can adapt to the game’s changes, and keep the high profile people in check. Don’t just support someone with a popular stream if they’re undeservedly ■■■■■■■ on the game or the community. Speak up (calmly) in chat when you see that happening from the streamer or their chat, and if it’s really bad cancel your subscription to their channel and unfollow. At that point, they’ve proven they don’t care about the game or the community, just getting what they want.
This has nothing to do with NRS. You think they’re ■■■■, good for you. But there’s a difference between hating WB’s business practices and constantly hurling insults at Boon, Vogel, etc because you feel justified in wanting to change how they (or more accurately, their parent company) do business.
There’s a very real and important difference between “the customer’s always right” and “the customer gets to open your mouth and scream down your throat until they get their way, regardless of whether you’re on the clock or not.”
This is a societal issue and to me, it’s only getting worse. As people feel less and less inclined to filter their own thoughts, and treat screen names on the internet like there aren’t actual human beings behind them, we end up chasing away the very people we all want to communicate with, and who wins in that scenario? The person that’s pestered in to dreading their own audience? The people that get even angrier for not being listened to? The people that aren’t angry, that simply enjoy communicating their opinions?
Paying money for a game doesn’t mean you get to design it. The developers listen, and then do what they feel is right for the game and that’s regardless of whether you’re a day one player that just downloaded it or a pro that’s been playing since the beginning.
These guys listen a TON. But they’re not going to agree with a miniscule minority opinion or even a majority opinion if it doesn’t fit what they feel the game should be or how a character should work or whatever and as players, we need to learn how to be more respectful of that fact and cope with the idea that continued shouting isn’t always the best policy and in many cases, it can be among the worst.
I saw the stream, wasn’t completely paying attention to it…definitely wasn’t looking at the comments, but that really sucks that Keits was treated that way. I can’t really say much because I really don’t know what was said (I tried to go back & skim through the comments and didn’t really find any of the toxicity), but yeah…kinda like the old saying goes: Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Seriously though, so many people it seems like anymore just don’t know how to treat other people. I really feel they should start requiring kids to read “How to Win Friends and Influence People” in school.
It’s also a community - and that’s really what this is about. Players can spit vitriol all they want - none of it will make it into the game, but all of it affects the community.
This really should be the most “liked” comment in forum history. If anyone has made it through the thread without liking the above, go back and click the little heart up there. It should be in the hundreds.
There is no excuse for kicking a gift horse in the teeth. I’m not sure who said what, but I’d like to know so that I don’t waste any time clicking their links, watching their videos or streams and bolstering their numbers for anything…
I don’t always agree with Keits. I don’t always like what he has to say. But the guy is clearly working hard and delivering a terrific fighting game. He’s on here reading this stuff. He shows up in Twitch streams to chat with the community. Forget fighting games. What game do any of us play where we can actually get a hold of a developer and have any chance of having them respond to our (admittedly sometimes dumb) questions? Explain their design decisions to us?
It’s tough to know the relationships here without knowing the people involved. There’s a real chance that these guys actually know each other in real life - at least in passing. But it’s worth mentioning as part of the general outrage that this is an outflow of the “it’s just the internet bruh, don’t take it personal” attitude that seems to be rampant. It’s always a few bad apples that ruin the bunch, but all communities on the internet need to start self regulating. If someone is not contributing positively and ruining our community we need to collectively show them the door.
Here, let me give you guys a sample of a few quotes from our loving and supportive community:
"Stop making it seem like you made KI the allmighty god game of fighting games”
“Lmao the only thing saving this game is the fact that their isn’t another game to play right now” + “oh, and the 100k”
“That dude a little girl anyways like take some criticism dog. stop playing overwatch and work on your game”
“This ain’t even hype anymore. I’m done.”
“sticks fingers in ears LALALALALALALAA THE GAME IS PERFECT LALALALALALALA”
“When everyone’s constantly paying attention to the chat and getting in fights…Like I take time out of my day to do these events, I want to provide stuff for KI. But whenever stuff like that’s going on, it’s like, well, what’s the point of me putting on a show?”-Zombie
This is such a crucial point. Some of the folks who regularly poke our devs are folks who would kowtow and go super-fangirl if they met Hideo Kojima, giddy at the chance to have a moment of their attention.
An entire genre of YouTube videos exists because gamers all over the world lack a soundboard to the devs of the games they play. That genre is so popular that many can make a living just making those videos. think about that.
But I’d like to make this clear - going after individuals is the WRONG idea. Going in on any one player in particular will fix nothing, and likely just exacerbate the situation.
This has to be a general thing. A moving-forward thing. Vote with your time, attention and wallet folks.
Yeah this is kinda the hard part. How do we react to toxic people? On one hand, I don’t want to just sit silently while a group of people are just relentlessly screeching and howling at the devs or negging on the game for some clever lolz and internet high fives from their bros.
But on the other hand, I don’t want to pollute a stream by attacking someone and creating even more of an environment of vitriol for something that’s supposed to be fun. Yet part of me really wants to at least say “this isn’t okay. What you people are doing to this guy isn’t okay.”
But would they listen? Would they care? Probably not. Would voting with your time, attention and wallets work either though? I dunno.
I’m talking about the people that do.
Fine. Educate me. But not here, as that’s a bit off topic. If you know of a good deal of NRS’ issues with MKX that actually came from Boon or NRS and definitively not WB, then throw me a PM. That’s not a challenge by the way, as I’m not saying I don’t believe you. I’ve been following MK since the first one came out in arcades, but as far as NRS being personally responsible for what you’re talking about, I’m not overly aware, so I’m definitely curious.
My point still stands on the difference between thinking they’re bad and harassing individuals in to oblivion still stands, though I’m assuming you’re not disputing that at all, but that was really my main point either way.
In the past I’d usually make an absurd quip or a playful poke - but I’m honestly thinking the best thing to do is not to react at all. Moving forward I’ll just use the mute functions in chat (which I’ve done from time to time anyhow) and just continue having fun watching the stream. They can’t stand in the way of us enjoying ourselves if we don’t let them.
Certainly. If people stop showing up to the streams of toxic players, stop donating/subscribing, stop engaging with their social media - they’ll get the message quick. Time and money are the most potent tools there are nowadays.
Yeah, I’m tending towards just muting toxic people from my own personal dealings on Twitch and just enjoying an otherwise positive chat experience. I long ago stopped supporting streamers who spend 80% of their stream time complaining about all of the things wrong with the game, 10% of their time reproducing in practice what they hate about the game, and the rest of that time playing and yelling “YOLO” whenever the opponent hits them with a DP or dares to break a combo. I have better ways to spend my time, and frankly, I don’t want to give them the benefit of my +1 to their audience numbers.
It’s not that I think criticism is necessarily bad (it isn’t), or that KI is perfect (it’s not) - but if literally almost everything you say is just “this is broken” or “this is stupid”, then why the hell would I spend my leisure time watching you? In the list of ways to spend my free time, listening to someone else ■■■■■ for an hour comes in pretty low.
I mostly lurked during last night’s Pro tournament but I have to agree, chat for the most part was a disgrace. My suggestion moving forward is that all Pro League/KI WC qualifiers that are going to be streamed need to be moderated. There was at least 10 mods in the channel at one point during the worst of it and yet not one made a general statement trying to direct the conversation away from the “AMA” form it took and back to focusing on the matches. Any chat regarding issues with the game should have been directed here to the forums & then purged/timed out if it continued. That would have got the point across pretty quickly. Having good chat moderation goes a long way. Look at the flack Dream Hack took for the crap they let go in the Hearthstone tournament back in Houston. Things only get this way if the community overall tolerates it. Those with the authority in the chats/forums need to regulate what is going on or we end up with what we had last night.
Pretty shameful that a lot of the “Pro” players conduct in chat was no better than the good 'ole twitch trolls that plague chats. I say this 'cause when Professional is associated with a person. It typically implies that person can conduct themselves in a respectable manner. Not in the way most people were acting last night.
If FGC wants to be taken seriously in the e-sports scene things like this need to pretty much never happen.
