#BelieveInKeits

Well jokes aside, that is only a 50% solution.

What ever they add, Sadira was always a hard one to fight for me. Especially as Fulgore since your only viable anti-air is the cyber uppercut since it was invincible on start up. Other than that though she pretty had it easy with her verticality.

Though seeing as this is a combo trait I assume all it will do is just add to her ability to do said combos int he air rather than relying strictly on combos.

Crouch heavy punch…? Between that, DP, and blade dash pip cancel DP, fulgore is hardly struggling to keep people out of the air.

That’s really just not true though.

My only gripe that has really turned me off from KI is as to why Jago absolutely sucks against Gargos. Well, just in general why Gargos feels like he is God Tier.

Help me, oh wise one! @Infilament

im awaiting the new patch changes with equal optimism and pessimism. no patch is ever perfect, i am more than sure there are gonna be things on there that make me happy and equally pissed off. its the harsh reality that alot of people do not seem to grasp. its something i learned over years of playing PvP in MMORPGs. there is no such thing as a perfect patch.

whoever these majority of players are, i suspect they are going to be quite upset with what is coming their way. you cant please everyone! if you enjoy KI, then enjoy it and dont let others tell you what to like or to hate. if you do not like KI, then thats just how you feel and we’ll see you around in another fighting game. no hard feelings! play what you like, time is finite. i dont think anyone should play a game they do not like or are stressing over constantly. thats not why we play videogames in general, end of story.

Yeah I’m not sure where you’re getting that either @Zcythe. Sure, he speaks out. He gives his opinion. But I don’t think he “feeds on the drama.” Oh well, to each his own.

As for the sentiment that Season 3 somehow took a wrong turn and that some were complaining and jumping ship… I honestly think that some of that is pure attrition. Some people, after three years, were bound to go look for something new.

But it’s not simply that they want something new, it’s that they become more adamant in wanting what they want because they’ve wanted it for so long and they’ve becoming frustrated that they haven’t been listened to.

This sort of “if I could just get through to the devs, they’d see it my way” kind of mentality that quickly turns in to repetitive posts, increasingly frustrated tweets and streams, this sort of “they just don’t get it” or “they don’t care” mentality, again, compounded by a likely unconscious desire to move on turns a minority segment in to a somewhat off-putting vocal minority.

Not saying they shouldn’t be listened to or that their motives are impure (who knows), but I think something gets lost when the opinion starts to gather some anger behind it. I think people stop remembering what they really enjoyed, or they lose an ability to compartmentalize likes and dislikes, and that object of dissatisfaction becomes both an increased focus and lingering bone of contention.

Negativity begets negativity in scenarios like this and before you know, you have a bunch of people angrily yelling to fix this or that or just badmouthing the game or the devs in general. It kinda snowballs on itself.

Personally, there are some things that I loved about season 3 and some things that I didn’t. Same goes with season 2 and season 1 before it. Maybe attrition will hit me in season 4 and maybe not. But so far, I’ve found it very easy to focus on that which I enjoy, but maybe that won’t be the case next season.

It’s not just nostalgia for some people. Let’s not group everyone together here. For some people, they loved how the old KIs played and season one was too different. Some people loved how simple the character designs were in season one and found the addition of recapture and the more complex characters in season 2 a turnoff and so on and so forth.

That’s just it though… Changes, whether in concert with nostalgia or along with it separately, are two key aspects of attrition; of people saying that this isn’t what I’m in to anymore. I think that’s fine so long as people try and keep perspective enough to realize that’s what it is.

Too often, it’s more people becoming frustrated for not getting exactly what they want without realizing that what they want might be completely different from what others want and that IG can’t make you and me happy if we both want completely opposite and competing ideas.

As for Sadira… I hope she gets an aerial linker and that her combo trait becomes the ability to do full, breakable combos in mid-air. :slight_smile: That’d be keen.

I hope the patch has a lot of cool goodies in it, but I’m not expecting it to. I’m more psyched for Shadowlords than anything else right now!

Yeah shadow lord Gargos is. I still have hope to beat him on Godlike

Aw that’s a bummer. What don’t people like? The balance changes?

Eyedol?

This is an incredibly broad question, because everyone’s reason is different. We can pinpoint it to one thing specifically.

Whether he is aware of it or not, there is certainly enough to suggest otherwise.

The game will never truly be perfect not in my eyes, the developer eyes or any one else’. I talked about this on my stream literally one or two days ago that and I quote, “I seriously doubt the patch will address everyone’s concerns with the game”. However there are some pretty blaring issues with the game a number of people that have voiced their thoughts on, and to clarify when I say “a number a people” I mean people I’ve spoken with throughout the community over time who are mostly top players.

I think having the community engage in positive discussion about the games future and how it can improve is better than sitting in a stream chat bashing the game constantly and not promoting any kind of improvement. Giving players who are frustrated and quitting the game, even the casuals I have spoken with hope for the future is better than nothing.

Given IG and MS track record of touting they love to listen to the community, I’m sure a lot of whats coming in 3.4 is a direct byproduct of that. Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t ever remember them patching the game very much after all the characters had been released in season2; So for them to put out a massive patch (or as massive as we all hope it to be) like this I believe anyways is them hearing our voices; and when I mean “we” I mean the people who actually travel to tournaments and compete. Casuals are important as well but I think it’s safe to say it’s the hardcore audience that has more knowledge and direct influence with about whats going on.

I think its also important to point out that Keits once told me that he literally reads every thread on this forum to some degree, while also being very close to Twitter, Reddit and other places. I think some people in this community drastically underestimate what the Developers know and don’t know a lot more so than the people who post on these forums and don’t even have a twitter, facebook or any other social media where a lot of these discussion takes place within the community.

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Idk, as these forums have shown before, top players aren’t immune to misunderstanding the game. I’ve seen a good handful of complaints from damn good players that are completely, wildly off base.

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What are these blaring issues & what are they quitting the game to go play instead? I can tell you, in my opinion, there are no reasons at all in the current state of KI to cause someone to quit the game… So I am curious to see what the greener pastures are that they are escaping KI for…

And as for top players, I can tell you that, being a “top player” does not mean that said person is more insightful relating to what decisions should be made, nor what is good from what isn’t… And when “pro’s” are leaving the game due to this buff or that nerf or balance change or whatever else they feel slighted by, displays the level of their personal character rather than discredits the game, “oh even the pros are leaving… this game is headed downhill”, Nah, I say as the KI train moves on, those that stick with it through thick and thin are who matters, whoever leaves, left, whatever their reason is doesn’t matter, because by leaving the excused themselves from relevance

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You’re good with hammers. Think you can come over and nail up my roof?

Also keep in mind LCD, that because one may not be able to go to tournaments, whether it be financial constraints, work or family/personal constraints or whatever the reason maybe, or even if all the time one has is just a few hours on a weekend, does not mean one is a casual (in an inferior context), nor that they have less knowledge and should be any less influential, that’s why this community forum is so important, so those who may inadvertently fall under the “Casual” category can be influential by using the avenues they can to support, provide insight, and be involved with KI, maybe one cannot afford the proper streaming tools, like recording devices, mics, high enough speed internet or whatever else and cannot verbally express their ideas, I don’t think that person should be deemed any less of an influence than an LCD or KI4Life…

It’s not just you. I’ve seen the same things.

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I need to stay off of this forum. Lol…So much drama over a VG. So easy to get wrapped up in it. I’m married with kids and somehow, out of all places online (and I follow politics and some sports), this forum draws me in. Bizarre.

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that’s what I’m saying, you are a treasured member that’s what’s great about the forum, you may be “casual” but here your equal too even, keep coming back and keep sharing your opinion

he made one of the points I find the funniest, just earlier in season 3 Kan-Ra was super broken and unbeatable now I never hear his name, and a tier guide comes out and he isn’t even “top tier”… your head will hurt following all this folklore, it will never end, and we have to accept that, and keep moving

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This is such a loaded topic. It deals with issues of “ownership” (who’s game is this anyway?) community, meritocracy versus democracy… I told my self when I started reading that I wouldn’t post anything because I don’t want to get into all this stuff. But ■■■■ it.

My problem with #BelieveInKeits is that I don’t think it’s truly a positive message. The message is “The game is busted, but they will fix it, because they are going to finally listen to us. Right? Right!?! RIGHT!!!.” In my view, it’s not a positive message, but just another way to harass the developers. Remembering that no one anywhere in this thread has actually made it clear to me what the “broken” parts of the game are. Just that many people in the “community” of “top level” players agree. Fun fact, it’s easy to get people to agree with whatever you say when you are complaining. But actually making something work is much harder than identifying what you think is wrong. If agreeing about what was broken ever solved anything we would have no poverty, good schools and world peace.

As @Infilament said so eloquently (going for another “like” record - dude you really should keep score on those, you’re like the KI World Cup champion of forum likes), the idea that they have this one patch to “put right what once went wrong” (Quantum Leap - anyone? No? …sigh) is just setting people up to be disappointed that they didn’t perfect the game in patch 3.4

Players come and go. That’s true whether you are a casual or an Evo champ. Play what you like. Leave when you want. This is going to make me sound like a ■■■■ but everyone needs to get over themselves. You are not that special. Any of you. Anyone remember Mr. Grimmmz? Awesome S1 Jago player. Super popular with the fans. Seemed like a good guy to me. Left the game. No one cares. If every single player who made top 32 at EVO this year leaves the game it just means we will have 32 other people playing in the tournament next year. You guys aren’t that special. Sorry. This applies to anyone squealing from the peanut gallery about whatever their pet want is - ultimates, stages, more guests, fewer guests, no mercies.

The devs have been pretty diligent about trying to collect input. But if you look at these forums, you can’t tell me that there is a single coherent voice about ANYTHING related to the game. I love the cinematic level 4 enders and I play with them turned on. I know I’m not in the majority on that, but I’m glad they didn’t just take them out. But if they had, I wouldn’t be on here boo hooing about how I will be taking a break from the game.

In my view, the reason Keits gets all this flak is because he is a part of “the community” who is now perceived to be in control of the game’s fighting mechanics (I know he’s the lead, but he’s not doing this all on his own guys). So all these other members of “the community” think that he is their friend and should be listening to their input. Not “listening to input,” but listening to THEIR input. You know. The cool kids. The people in top 8. But as much as you guys demonstrate amazing skills at the game, this isn’t a meritocracy. You don’t win the tournament and then control the future of the game. And if you think about it, would you want to grab this years NBA all stars and ask them what rules there should be in the league next year? Probably not. Being a good player is not the same as being a good game designer. Michael Jordan wasn’t a great basketball coach.

I’m not saying the devs shouldn’t listen to our feedback. And they clearly, demonstrably DO listen. But LISTENING to us is not the same as DOING WHAT WE WANT. This is so aggravating to me, because I had to teach my children this distinction, and now at 5 and 8 they get it completely. But somehow “the community” has completely missed this life lesson.

Give feedback in a constructive way. Play the game until you no longer enjoy it. Then leave. Come back. Leave again. whatever. I don’t care what games other people play. I’m having fun with KI S3. Are there things I would do differently? Heck yes. Will I share that feedback? Absolutely. Do I expect the developers to listen to me and do what I want? No. 7 million other people have played KI. They have to take all our input, combine it with their own various visions of the game (don’t think that they don’t have similar disagreements within the design team - of course they do), and then implement it in such a way that it stays competitive for tournament players, exciting for noobs and fun for everyone in between. Guys, that ■■■■ is HARD TO DO. So without blowing sunshine at the development team, who I think have made plenty of mistakes over the course of development, I think it’s just amazing that the game exists and is as fun as it is. It makes me nuts that the reward for them taking the fans seriously is this level of grief. Meanwhile “don’t ask me for ■■■■” Harada is a game design legend for producing a game with a zillion characters that are not close to balanced and simply not worrying about stuff. “Oh, you guys don’t like Lucky Chloe? Well then ■■■■ you, maybe we just won’t release her in your territory.”

There is no game, anywhere (even on ******* Kickstarter EDIT whoops, I thought that would be bleeped. Sorry mom.) where the developers have this level of interaction with the community. I think it’s fantastic, but honestly I don’t know why they do it. It just leads to more and more complaining.

I don’t have to #BelieveInKeits. I have seen his work and I like it. The next patch will change the game and I still won’t be a KI World Cup contender. And I will keep playing anyway because I’m having fun.

I had to pull this quote because it’s awesomely true. “I can’t quit you forum!”

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