My two favorite characters, Sadira and Kan Ra, always seem to be at the bottom of tier lists. Granted, KI’s balanced enough to the point where the bottom isn’t too far from the top, but I’d love it if the devs could help these two out a little and close that distance even further.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it seems as though some people don’t want Sadira, Kan Ra or even Shago for that matter to be TOO powerful, as their skill sets could make them a bit too annoying to face off with. If that’s the case, it’d be nice if they could be buffed in a way that wouldn’t make them more annoying, but that’s obviously subjective (and also easier said than done).
Of course, I know that some characters have to be in the bottom tier, otherwise the tier list would only be one tier. I guess I’m just curious if people had any sort of opinion on whether there were any gaps big enough in the tier list to warrant developer intervention on some level and if so, how you’d maybe adjust the character(s) to be a better version of themselves.
Personally, I’d love it if Sadira had something to either help her with zoners a bit more, had a more useful ender than her current damage ender (or perhaps an additional ender that’s air related?), or had some sort of power move on the ground allowed her to do a bit more damage, that maybe made her slightly more threatening on the ground. One of those. Certainly not all of them.
As for Kan Ra, I honestly don’t know. He seems like he’d be such a difficult character to balance. It’d be nice if he dealt a little more damage in certain situations or maybe had another means of escaping besides sandsplosion, but that might be asking for too much.
I agree with most of this. I think eyedol is probably up there with the other S tier characters; there are situations he can be put in where he has kind of a hard time but I don’t think these at all overshadow how good his options are overall, and especially the explosiveness of his instinct. Some of his tools are absolutely disgusting and not talked about nearly enough.
@Infilament At 1 character away you has the same Tl as me, IMO arbiter should be in S-
you know the game better than so so I think you have some valid reason to put him there
lol for the mobility he got in the air I think most aerial characters can be envious. Shadow boot = crazy hitbox + crazy damages and crazy startup , this toad got a armor in the air ball that even with sadira double MK you still get hit, im not even talk about that crazy damage when he grab and throw you.
This moment when you feel it is preferred to some others aerial characters oups He is even entitled to a life size statue. lol
but I like him ahhaha[quote=“MnTLetalis, post:12, topic:21786, full:true”]
Personally I’d put arbiter at the bottom too. His bad mus are just exceedingly brutal
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interesting to know, can you let me know wich are the bad Mu for arbiter pls. PM it to me bro
Isn’t a good thing? hes become godlike since the last damages buff he needs im really happy to see how flash shows that now hes perfect. I like the wulf but I cannot use him I just feel like arrroooooohhhhhh. lol
I love him and thanks for the buff IG.
But if you asked me Wulf was stronger un S1 and S2 xD
I’m not sure if Wulf should be so high in the list.
Loses to Kan Ra,Aria, Omen, Glacius, Gargos,
Eagle, Shago and Raam. And also maybe vs Tusk, Aganos, (Riptor? ), Fulgore and Eyedol (mage zoning can be tough).
I don’t agree that he immediately loses to zoners. I do agree that he loses to Aria and potentially Glacius but I believe he can now beat Fulgore considering his recent changes. I also think that he can beat out Eagle, though it may still be too early to say. Shago, I would say it’s fairly even.
Hm. I think I would dispute quite a few of these Maru. For example, I don’t see (at all) how Wulf loses to Shago. Eclipse shuts down any teleport divekick pressure (3 frame grounded special that beats cross-ups), and Wulf in general outdamages Shago pretty cleanly. Eagle is brand new and thus tough to judge, but the character is 100% free on knockdown, and it isn’t obvious to me that Wulf would lose the neutral consistently in that MU. Kan? Maybe, though Wulf has better tools than most to clear scarabs. You shouldn’t be getting hit by mage zoning almost ever, so that doesn’t seem to be particularly compelling to me (though Wulf may indeed lose the fight overall).
I could pick at your rationales for the others as well, but I guess mainly I just want to get a sense for why you think some of these fights go against the dog. Maybe we can help you think of some different ways to approach those MU’s that might help.
I don’t think he loses to Glacius, personally. The only time I really win the MU is when I have fought hard as hell to get the spacing, or the Wulf player gives it to me for some reason. Wulf is damn fast and this game does not have neutral starts. Glacius has to give up his spacing at the start of each round, which means that the Wulf should be starting on his own terms each round.
Eclipse it’s just not a magical thing you can do on reaction vs Shagos dive kick whenever he decides to.
Online is harder, easier offline for sure.
Oh, Maya can be tough too.
Btw, I’m not asking for MU help in this thread. I think he might be in the bottom of S- or a solid mid tier.
With this it looks like he is like almost top tier like he was before.
I wonder if the Jago v Glacius matchup is 6-4 in favor of Glacius now or if it’s just about even?
I would argue that if someone can reliably DP motion an anti-air, that it would be much easier to do a down-up motion. Though I will admit that reacting to it can be difficult, albeit not impossible with practice.
I get where you’re coming from, though I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to rate a character without considering matchup data and only accounting player-skill limitation and familiarity. I still believe Wulf is one of those characters that is under appreciated due to his shift onto season 3.
Come to think about it, not in your instance, but in general this seems like a trend. Most everyone who has had their character within the top five ranking who are slightly or evidently tuned down use said nerfs to justify a character being bad. I think of it like Fulgore (which can be debated endlessly), Jago, Sadira, and Rah.
The truth…if you put him that high he might get nerfed SO STOP!
Again, people, please go and use Wulf in ranked and use/mash eclipse to see how far you get with it against…Don’t know, Glacius floaty jump, Shadow Jago, Thunder’s jump. Chek the hitbox, check the frame data. IS GOOD, but it’s not a braindead thing you can simply do and AA eveything.
And just to be sure, I do know how to eclipse and that light is 3 fs start up.
But also mistakes or bad reads happen (have you also seen the classic input of “eclipse-shadow eclipse after ir? and the opener ender being broken?” I’ve seen it even in tournaments by very good players. You see even the best can make those type of mistakes.
And I’m so sorry for posting the OBVIOUS but once I uploaded a video for ppl crying WULF DP IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE TO BEAT. And that’s just plain dumb…Sorry. Just meaty that dp,is no so hard.
PS: video is old: Fulgore medium dp has not invincible start up.
I think the matchup is pretty even to be honest. I feel like I personally struggle with it at times, since I generally I have to wait so long for a turn and then there’s Jago’s health and meter gain. However, I feel like that is mostly me and not the matchup. As a player, I struggle with quite a few matchups I probably shouldn’t be.
I wouldn’t understand why someone would call that impossible to beat considering it isn’t invulnerable anymore, right?
I play Wulf from time to time online, not ranked because I just don’t know him well enough. I personally don’t have the issue of getting shadow eclipse as much as I just miss it or get stuffed because I never studied the range. So I won’t argue that it isn’t hard, though when I landing it, they knew better to try again.
Anyway, we can go on this forever, I can’t personally tell you why based on numbers or data because I don’t know Wulf, from personal experience, it’s easier for me to throw out his DP than it is for me to do it with Jago on both sides with minimal reaction time.
I’m really interested in having a set with you because I would consider Glacius my worst matchup in the game despite knowing it well. If you wouldn’t mind we should do a ft5/7/10 to see how both of us stack in a situation we both have trouble with. It would also be pretty cool to send that matchup to the replay analysis so we can hash out and improve on things we may not pick up.
Aganos, rash, omen, Sadira, thunder(though that may be different now) Raam. Those are the ones I know off the top of my head. There are probably others such as riptor or wulf since it wouldn’t be hard for them to box arbiter in.
I think this is the reality. Some characters simply can’t be top tier (someone like Aganos is in that group too) just because they are too disruptive to the game and could be too easy at low/mid level.
On the other side, I think there are characters that are good for the game if they’re top tier (Mira and Aria are among them) because playing them well is really difficult, and they can easily die if they make a mistake. Plus, the decision making they put their opponents in is interesting and not degenerate.
I think Sadira and Kan can use a bit of help but I don’t think they will ever get “all the help they need” to be S tier again. They’ll probably end up being mid tier characters that do fine in the hands of a specialist and need to work a little harder because their playstyles can be so disruptive.
Judging by community reaction to the character gargos is definitely in that category too. Personally I think he’s at the bottom together with those characters; as letalis mentioned, he has specific matchups that are extremely hard to deal with if his opponent knows how to play vs him.
Having played recently against good TJs, Sabrewulfs, Shagos, etc, regardless of where they are ranked they are monstrous and smothering in the right hands. That is the nature of KI. Regardless of tier, a good player can do wonders with any character.
Which is to Infil’s point about ranking as S, S-, A, and A-. Unlike other games, you don’t really have a B or C tier because of how many tools the characters have. Bear in mind, all these characters are like smashed together archetypes from other games souped up on testosterone and anabolic steroids. They snort a fine mixture of adrenaline and crack while drinking pints of espresso. You can’t do a mashup game or have KI characters guest star in another franchise because they would destroy everyone else.
Think about it: Akuma works in Tekken because porting over Street Fighter stuff doesn’t necessarily break the game. Oh, Akuma can throw fireballs? That’s great… and I sidestep. Jago in Street Fighter while maintaining the flavor of KI? Sorry, Ryu, your time has passed.
It really is amazing how viable all the characters are. Put that in comparison with MKX as an example. I remember watching a few streamers complain about their preferred character and it left me frustrated for the sake of the game because it wasn’t fair criticism.
He is even entitled to a life size statue. lol
PM it to me bro
hes become godlike since the last damages buff he needs 
im really happy to see how flash shows that now hes perfect. I like the wulf but I cannot use him 
I just feel like arrroooooohhhhhh. lol
really hopefull as guy. 
SO STOP!