No. Nope. I move that makes the opponents hitbox small and meaty wins. A well timed grab wins to his orda shield. A meaty jump by most characters wins against orda shield. A meaty projectile shadow invulnerable move wins against orda shield.
Shadow form is not real. It’s avoidance. You have too guess right just as much as your opponent. If you shadow form left or right, the opponent can mash jab and win. If you shadow form up he can still jab meaty and recover in enough time to anti air.
This character does not have a wake up because you should not fear omen on wake up. Having situational options doesn’t make it an A.
Characters that have moves regardless of the situations i put above (unless you safe jump) will beat everyone if them.
So im using a very niche game mechanic to wake up now? Honestly, every character in KI has an option to get off the ground. However some are stronger than others. When omens gets in the ground. The opponent does not have to fear my options nor respect. Wake up is having options that require your opponent to drastically change their plan of attack to beat you.
Orda actually doesn’t beat everything. Characters with tiny/weird hitboxes such as hisako Wulf and others can just stand right next to him to avoid it. Characters can also low profile it similar to cinder. Or as dul mentioned you can often grab him right out of it. Orda shield has strange interactions. But alot of characters do have options to just ignore it on wake up. Not that it matters given the nature of omen’s character.
I think Jago an annoying MU for Omen. Shago too, at least for me. I punish his missed DP’s with low HK, nothing so sofisticated. Probably there are better options. You said slide… it’s good, but the time has to be calculated, Jago must be recovering from his Tiger Punch to hit him with slide. If I miss the time, I’m the guy who gets punished. Shadow Form + HP/MK works well too while he’s recovering.
I see Orda hit all the time, even in wake up situations. Just because you can make it whiff doesn’t mean you always will, because the circumstances around making it whiff won’t always come up. And certainly, it has been already discussed as a way to interrupt strings that have 1 or 2 frame gaps (which means it’s a reversal).
All reversals have weaknesses, even something like Cinder’s fireflash (which is one of the best reversals in the game) can be low-profiled by many characters. Jago and Fulgore’s DPs can be crossed up pretty easily. Omen’s reversal might suffer from more weaknesses than average, but it is not without its merits as an invincible move.
“every character in KI has an option to get off the ground” is definitely false. There are several characters that have literally 0 options (including instinct pop) as a reversal, even with meter, but certainly without meter. The combination of Omen having a true reversal and a metered reversal that actually acts as a mixup (shadow form) means I think his wakeup is actually above average, not below average.
Orda removes Omen’s hitbox and strikes. It is by definition an invincible meterless reversal. It isn’t a super good one, but that’s what it is. Cinder’s fireflash can be low profiled, to say nothing of how it straight-up loses to other specials. It’s still an invincible reversal.
Shadow form is OS’able. So was TJ’s S2 roll. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t really, really, good when smartly applied. You could do a whole lot worse than Omen on wakeup.
I mean… technically kinda sorta. If you have an OS that beats all directions of reversal shadow form AND applies safe pressure if Omen blocks (and that’s to say nothing about orda or backdash), then that’s pretty strong and I don’t think most characters have something like this, lol. I imagine in reality, most characters can’t deal with the full combination of reversal options.
What does OS on shadow form mean? How can someone Option select? my shadow form?
I’m seeing a lot of players anticipate the Shadow form by jumping backwards and immediately striking, knocking me out of my attack.
Well, Hisako can do meaty cr.MK->ORZ, and if Omen shadow forms the whiff will eat the cancel into rekka, and I can just down+HP to catch him as he comes out of it. If he blocks, then I just get cr.MK->rekka as usual.
This works to catch any shadow form except for straight back I believe (puts him out of range of the down+HP), but loses to wakeup orda. And if he blocks, then Omen can of course just light orda the rekka string for free. But it’s a pretty consistent way she has to shut down most shadow form wakeups.
I’m probably going to butcher the real meaning, but OS’ing is about covering as many options as possible with a certain set of inputs. Maybe, possibly close to the right definition?
As far as something that can be used as an example, like always, i’ll go to my main Kim. Something i’ve been working on as some anti-Omen tech is on their wakeup or from an attempted crossup slide is meaty/punish cr. LP into immediate cr. HP.
From when i tested it, it would beat button, backdash, jump, outright beat M and H Orda Shield, trade with L Orda Shield, outright punish/counter-hit up, stationary, or angled Shadow Forms, did pretty well on left-right Shadow Forms and beat 3 out of 4 of his shadow moves as wakeup or reversal actions. On hit, cr. LP frame traps into cr. HP and on block it’ll leave the cr. HP as a 7f startup move.
What you described is a single action/sequence covering multiple options. An option select is a button sequence where one thing comes out on block, and another comes out on hit or whiff or whatever.
Good example would be this sequence from KI S2. Sadira against TJ after knocking TJ down:
Jump+HK (meaty)->QCF+LP
If TJ blocks, then Sadira hits with the jump+HK, gets a light widow’s bite on block, and is standing in front of TJ at some amount of plus frames.
If TJ rolls, the jump+HK whiffs, and the QCF+LP becomes light demon blade (because you cannot cancel jump normals into widow’s bite on whiff). The demon blade will be active when TJ comes out of his roll, and he will get hit.
If TJ backdashes, then jump+HK whiffs, Sadira again gets demon blade, and demon blade catches TJ’s recovery on backdash.
If TJ tries to jump or press a button, then he gets tagged by the jump+HK, the light widow’s bite cancel becomes valid and combos, and Sadira gets a manual into combo.
As you can see, the QCF+LP input gives two completely different moves depending on what TJ does. The game is choosing the valid response for you, allowing Sadira to address literally every option that TJ has on his wakeup.
Not all option selects are this airtight, and most of them can be stopped by simply sitting still and blocking, but hopefully that gives you a better idea at what exactly the term means.
A defensive example of an option select would be the wall splat throw tech OS. Once you get wall splatted, if you tech just as you come off the wall, then you will tech any comboing throw from the wall splat, but will not get a throw once you re-enter neutral. This means you can, on defense, cover the throw option after wall splat, and also simply down back to block the next mixup or AA the neutral jump that comes after.
Ah, not quite there with my definition i suppose. Noted.
I remember reading about that throw tech OS way back when on these forums and that it was suprisingly finnicky when i worked on practicing it. Went for it more than a few times and mustve missed it this morning against DMC as i recall.
Wait…what? So if Rash wall splats me or Glacius. I can hit Throw tech and down back block all at the same time and I will get either or depending if Rash/Glay hits throw or sweep?
I always seem to get thrown regardless by those 2. Am I teching too late?
