Why we don't have successful Omen players at championships? Does Omen really needs buffs?

Omen’s jump is slow, but this attacks comes out almost instantly, you will be pleased about how easy is to land it against jumping opponents

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Just a standing round house HK is better than jumping. If someone jumps in on Omen from a distance just standing roundhouse there asss

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Is standing HK better than Crouching HP?

I wouldn’t think so. Down+HP is almost certainly better for deeper jump-ins.

Seriously though, you guys may want to think about @Dayv0’s suggestion. Omen’s jump+HK has almost no start-up, hits like a truck, and launches the opponent almost full screen. You don’t always have to be grounded to anti-air someone; in SFV it’s pretty common for characters that lack good grounded AA options to opt to air-to-air someone defensively instead.

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That’s why I said it depends. HK when Omen is flying use to be good. But I think Omen lacks good standing AA options. HK, crouch HP are reasonable at max. Other characters like Jago, Shago and Fulgore have way better options.

I’m suprised people think Omen should be envious of characters like Jago or Fulgore just because he doesn’t have a true DP.

Do people really not like Shadow Form a lot? I really think it’s pretty powerful even if it does use meter. You can get out of tricky situations quickly. Even if you don’t want that, you have Shadow Slide as another option of getting out. I would rather have Omen’s AA toolset than Jago’s or Fulgore’s.

Are you serious? I think this (AA options) is one of Omen’s weakness, well, he’s not one of the worst at this though. But I’m ok with that, doesn’t exist perfect character, all of them have their advantages and disadvantages.

Notice how you didn’t say “reversal wake up” lol. I know it’s good for what you just stated. But this dudes wake up is a C- at best.

You don’t ALWAYS have to anti air to get out of the situation with Omen. Dhalsim players in SFV slide under jump in ymto avoid pressure, so you can omen.

Heavy slide with omen when you see a jump in and you’ll make almost full screen distance. Nobody does it.

You use it for that too though…

No way Omen’s wakeup is C-. Functional backdash and shadow form alone give him an average wakeup capability. Orda’s too inconsistent to say he’s got A or A+ wakeup, but I’d give him at least a B to B+. TJ will always and forever have to hold your meaty if he doesn’t have a bar - that is not true of Omen.

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Indeed. I was saying about AA moves who punish the opponent. For instance, Jago. I’m a newbie yet, playing around 1 month now, but I already realized that with Jago/Fulgore/Shago, you can’t keep flying all the time because they will punish you with Tiger Punch/DP/Whatever.

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That move can get mad option selected. :joy:

Wake up reversal tier list:
S: Invincible meterless DP with good damage/extra utilities
A: Invincible meterless DP, but with worse utilities than S tier
B: Wake up needs meter, but it’s fully invul(Thunder’s DP, Maya’s DP…)
C: Wake up needs meter, doesn’t win against all options, maybe even needs special resources(Aganos, Kan-Ra)
D: No wake up at all: Eagle

Out of my mind, feel free to correct me

By your tier list C fits omen perfectly :joy:

This was a good read!

Omen is the Nerf King. All Hail!

Actually he fits in A

When I say a wake up doesn’t win against all options, I’m talking about things like this:

Jago: His DP, metered or not, wins against hits, projectiles and throws
TJ: His wake up, when metered, wins against hits, projectiles and throws
Omen: Orda shield wins against everything, shadow form avoids everything
Aganos: His wake up either wins hits or throws, never both, you have to guess
Kan-Ra: shadow whirl wins against throws, but not against hits. Sandsplosion wins against everything, but hurts Kan, and needs a special resource

That’s what I mean when something “doesn’t win against all options”. Orda shield does, and shadow form avoids all.

According to this premature list, I would put Omen between A and B.

If you can pop instinct, see a meaty, and use an invincible move to get the guy off you, then you have a wakeup. Omen certainly has that. It loses to certain types of offense but beats a ton of other stuff just fine.

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When I look at reversals I look at them as either being good on wake up or just good as a get off me move. Some moves are great for both. Others such as orda shield while not as good for wakeup but still good for getting people off of him. I played Dayton the other day and would use orda to interrupt his block strings. Orda is good. Just not good to use on wake up. But omen doesn’t need to use it in wake up. Just wait a bit. After you interrupt their pressure once it’ll make them think twice as no one wants omen to have his turn again.

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Bait it. Most Jago’s are reluctant to use H. Tiger Fury because it does the rawest damage. Incidentally, it’s one of his easiest punishable moves in his toolset. If you are testing a Jago’s AA, he will either block the air pressure or punish it with a damaging DP. If you notice he is going for DP’s to read AA opposed to crouching HK, then use Omen’s mobility against him.

Glide forward, dash back near the ground and punish a whiffed DP with either slide or F+HP. I don’t know Omen’s optimal punishes, but Omen has a nice job at annoying Jago with pokes, ambiguous crossups and baits built around Omen’s playstyle.

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I didnt say that. i said … when an opponent in jumping in from far away. If you are holding your ground, controlling SPACE, …no need to jump and kick. You can round house them.