Why we don't have successful Omen players at championships? Does Omen really needs buffs?

Characters Omen
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First off, I’m new to the game. I started playing at the beginning of the year, played for about 2 months and stopped (after getting rekt a lot of times at multiplayer matches xD). Oh, but don’t get me wrong, I love KI. Now I’m trying to play with Omen because I think his moves are cool. I’m a lvl 30 Omen player who’s trying to improve (if you know some good Omen players who records videos of matches, please say it).

Ok, you might be thinking: “Of course we have good Omen players out there!” I know that there are some good Omen players out there (Fall of Seraph, Letallis Venator, ItzTymeToDul, just to cite some of them), but guys, seriously… I don’t see Omen at the top of the game now. On the rank of best players we don’t see any Omen until the 50th position (the last time I saw the list, I can’t go to the Xbox to confirm this now). Do you ever saw Omen at the top 8 in a KI championship? And why I’m saying that? Because I love to play with him! Omen with his shadow moves, kicks and hashakukens, they are so cool. We don’t have yet a guy who can prove to us that Omen is a good character! For instance, Thompson is awesome with Jago (I really think the devs decided to nerf Jago after his performance with him), Sleep is awesome with ARIA (Maya, Gargos and Arbiter too), Rico with Gargos, Wheels with Tusk/Gargos, Nicky is awesome with Fulgore, Bass with Spinal, well, the list goes on… Where is the amazing Omen player!?

I think KI is one of the more balanced fightning games, we see a great diversity in terms of characters on the championships, but where’s Omen? Do you think it’s because Omen is underwhelmed? Omen needs a buff? Or the players who have Omen as main are just unlucky to get at the top? In my opinion Omen lacks damage, but all his enders are battery, so if he had a huge damage it could be abusive with 3 shadow bars.

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I blame Omen’s low popularity on a few things.

A) Many people hate his design/animations.
B) Although small, his randomness factor can be unappealing.
C) Generally low damage.

He’s certainly not a bad character at all. Just cause you don’t see him often in tournaments doesn’t mean he’s not top tier. Jago, Aria and Fulgore only get notable successes with one player each.

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I totally agree with you but get ready… people are going to reply and say he is top 3 and that he is fine where he is at. I dont see it. But apparently he is fine where he is by the majority of players that dont play Omen.
I too have the same look at the situation, "why aren’t people using him if he is so good? Top 3? You would think peopel would be wearing him out?

If he hit harder, he would be awesome… I think the best characters are the ones that hit hardest IMO and Omen doesnt hit hard enough…you have to work twice as hard as the Glacius’s, Thunders, Jagos, Mira’s, Arias, Hisako’s ect…
Thanks for tagging me, hopefully one day we will see Omen hit just a hair harder or see some of the hard hitters level out a bit across the cast.

Good luck and keep at it with Omen…the more people that play him and share tech the better he will be and we will all be.
If you ever want to play some sets hit me up. Im actually looking to work on other characters so we wouldn’t have to mirror match.

The top Omen player BTW is Nate…he has several different Game tags…but SkateNAte or SKateNS or something… he is a cool dude and was in the KIWC top 24

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I watched your match at KIWC against an Orchid player. Maybe one day I accept the invite, but I’m returning to the game slowly xD When I get better with Omen and some other characters maybe? haha I really dedicated me to KI when I was playing it actively, did all the dojo lessons, did 50% of Shadow Lords, got some good guardians, but still sucks at online matches. I love KI, but I think the game is kinda hard for newcomers (subject for another thread).

Do you mean GTG|ToneriXSk8 (maybe he is not using this gametag anymore…)? I watched a match between him and a Tusk player (DaytonTJ). He is very skilled indeed.

Until now Omen is my favorite character, I’ll try to learn how to play with others too, but learn good tricks with another character dedicates time. Watch matches of good players, pratice, put this techs in real matches, etc… I levelled Maya to lvl 50 and when I watched PinkDiamond and Sleep playing with her I realized that I didn’t know nothing lol her juggles are just insane, I think I would have to pratice some months to do them xD

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Is that a bad thing?

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No its not, but the attitude that comes with it can be.

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Yes thats him! He is super cool too so if you fried him on facebook or twitter he is sure to answer any questions you have. I talked to him fro a while on facebook and at KIWC. Nathan Hughes is him name.

He man do be worried about how well you play in a set, IM not that great so you may be surprised that you are prob just as skilled as I am! And like I said I can use other characters so Im not using my main. Just let me know man.

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Nothing wrong with differing opinions. Just the way you phrased that seemed…closed-minded.

Don’t mind me.

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Im not close minded…just dont like when people come with opinions but with the attitude as if its fact and not an opinion. Or people that just drop in to stir up unnecessary drama and truly dont want to have a honest discussion of the topic…but dont mind me.

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You know Omen is a top tier character. Stop trying to make him stronger. :laughing:

Ok. I am done messing with you. Truth is that Omen should be a little stronger. His meter gain is beautiful, but his damage sucks. It is sad to sew a 30 hit combo do around 23% damage. IG could at least increase the damage of the shadow moves. Using meter for anything but orbs is a waste “at least from my view it is”.

They should spend more time Buffing lower characters instead of nerfing higher ones.

You are very close minded and you know it :laughing: Wait that is me :grin:

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Gotta get @ItzTymeToDul up in here, he is the best Omen expert I know.

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I believe Omen is pretty strong (not Top 3 strong, but definitely Top 10 strong) as-is. So yeah, I do think he’s fine.

He does lower damage in general, but he’s also got some of the best neutral control and reset options in the game. He isn’t allowed to get great straight-up damage because he’s got quite a few ways to kill you by small cuts. As a tip though, his shadow lightning legs does very good in-combo damage, so if you get a lockout that should be your go-to shadow.

So I pulled these out because I feel like I’ve been seeing these rationales a lot on the forums lately, and I think they are both really deleterious mindsets to actually engaging with substantive discussion or learning. So apologies Fall - this isn’t about you individually at all, but I’d really like to address the mindset behind this.

The first piece, the idea that someone has to play a character to evaluate them, ignores the fact that every member of the cast of every FG in existence has an objective set of tools. Normals, specials, movement speed, defensive options…all of these things can be looked at and examined in the context of a game and the rest of the cast, and to dismiss all criticism or points of view because someone doesn’t play the character is to make a huge mistake. @Infilament doesn’t actually play hardly any of the KI cast, but I’d trust his judgment across a wide range of KI topics because he is very good at breaking down toolsets and options in this manner. Not everyone is Infil, but neither is everyone who doesn’t actively play a particular character a wholly uninformed naïf either. Playing a character certainly gives perspective on them, but it isn’t the end-all be-all. Plenty of great players downplay their characters precisely because they’re too steeped in “the struggle” to objectively evaluate what options their character has in relation to the rest of the cast.

On the second piece, I will leave these forums a happy man if people can stop with the “if X was good, everyone would be playing them” thing. It’s not true, has never been true, and is a manifestly terrible way to try to evaluate a cast that is this compressed tier-wise. Mira has been Top 2 since her release in my opinion, but we heard for months and months and months about how she was “unviable” because none of the so-called pros wanted to touch her. If Nicky hadn’t picked her up, she’d still have no tournaments to her name - and that wouldn’t mean a blessed thing about how good she is. She has the tools, and that’s the only thing she should be evaluated for.

End rant. Again Seraph, this wasn’t really directed at you even if I did pull your quotes. Just really wanted to address some mindsets that I think are keeping our players from growing and learning.

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Im really speaking more to the people that just drop in to argue instead of explain exact details and specifics as you just did. The same people that drop in on just about every thread to start an argument for the sake of just disagreeing with everyone. As @BigBadAndy said so well the other day…that barking dog that you shouldn’t bark back at LOL
The OP asks a question and I tell him I dont believe Omen is top 3… someone is going to come behind me and not address the OP but rather address me and tell me Im wrong, crazy, yadda yadda… not you, but others…it never fails. So Ive come to expect it at this point which is why I said what I said from the get go.
You know dropping comments that Im close minded, ect…

I can def agree with you that Omen is top 10, but I do not think he is top 3 and I believe that the reason why we dont see any of the top pros using or winning with him is he just doesn’t have what it takes to compete with the top winning characters. THey find better results with other charters. Im sure they have all used Omen and just dont like the results that they are accustomed to. Ill believe it win I see it or do it my self… the later most likely never happening LOL
But in the end, my post was to help the OP and even offer some sets to help him… not here to argue with anyone.

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I know I am going to receive some real hate for my next remark, but I am going to make it anyway. It is real easy to be a critic after a match, or look at data on paper, then make some judgement. It is easy to watch a replay of a match and say things like “He should have done this here, “x” move would have worked better”. It is not so easy when you have half a second make a choice.

Yes, I also believe that you need to play the character before you pass judgement on if it is too weak or strong when it comes to fine tuning a character. A thunder player who can do 50% damage with a small combo, has no idea what it takes to get that kind of damage with Omen.

As far as Mira is concerned, she is one that looks better on paper, than actual gameplay. On paper you can see that can heal herself, due to some moves costing health. In real gameplay, you either go for bug damage and hope you can heal later, or heal as you go and do less damage.

The whole if “x” was/is good then everyone would play them is true. If it wasn’t true then the teir lists wouldn’t be so important to certain players. All the Fulgore players and Glacius players prove it. Glacius didn’t have much of a following, but after the damage boost, all sorts of people started playing him. If Omen got a 20% damage boost, then you would see Omen players all over the place.

Just because “pro” players don’t switch all the time doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. The only reason most “competitive” don’t change is because they have memorized all their characters stats so they know what is safe and when to use it. There are alot more causal players that will change to what ever character is the easiest or most popular to win with.

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omen is beautifullly designed IMO

to avoid the random FB just use the light version, it wil be random but you are able to move really fast right after the only ball at close range and from mid range you can spam the medium of the heavy version

im not ok with you omen get tools to kill you faster as he wil and with good damage cashout, omenis a lil bit as aria , you have to chose the ender you wish for kill or for heavy setup behind.[quote=“SonicDolphin117, post:2, topic:21386”]
He’s certainly not a bad character at all.
[/quote]

definitly not at all :grinning:, just a lil bit difficlt to deal with the jump

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Coming from someone who’s played him since s2 he’s top 5. Right behind aria fulgore and mira. Most top players agree he’s top 5 or close to it. Omen doesn’t do damage because he pretty much has everything else. He has great buttons, great mobility, one of the strongest mixup games, around dumb corner pressure, he can lock out your meter for 8 full seconds. Which may not seem like much but if your character doesn’t have a reversal they’re stuck holding whatever he does since he’s plus on most things. Omen doesn’t have great damage but he can open you up 3 times before you realize what’s going on.

He’s a character with pretty much every tool and not really any losing matchups. While having a lot of winning fights to boot.

Also people should get out of the mentality that being widely played means they’re top tier. Even back when kan ra was busted there were only 3 people that used him heavily in tournaments. Fulgore isn’t widely used either neither is aria. Tbh the only high tier characters that are fairly common are cinder and rash. And still at a higher level rash isn’t seen that often.

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Glacius did not get a damage boost. In fact, he got a damage nerf at the start of S3 and nothing has changed about his damage since (except a bug fix to his shadow cold shoulder opener which doesn’t really matter for this conversation).

On topic, I think Omen is top 5-ish, probably hovering right around the bottom of it with a bunch of other characters. He is very strong and the game would be worse if he got any substantial buffs.

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I feel REALLY bad that i have not had more success. I really want to take this character far.

In retrospect to the OP, no, omen doesn’t need buffs. Why? Because he’s still top 5. Omen 9/10 times doesn’t care what the opponent is doing in neutral. Its his game to control from the get go. His weakness is that he is weaker on the damage front and wake up front. He is a character that benefits from longer fights because he has baby damage but can put random fireballs on the screen.

Omen is top 3 in the corner (i will fight ppl over this. :joy:) but you have to be a GREAT player to make omen work. OMEN has to work just as hard as every other mid tier, but what makes him top tier is that if omen is on his a game, you cannot start anything unless he has no resources and fireballs.

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PPL THINK I’M A GOOD OMEN PLAYER :weary::weary::weary::heart::heart::heart::laughing::laughing::laughing::laughing::triumph::triumph::stuck_out_tongue::stuck_out_tongue:

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Ppl don’t play omen because hes a bonus character that didn’t get that much love like the rest of the cast. Some characters aren’t as popular as others. It happens.

Kan ra and kim wu are decent characters but nobody plays them too.