Whoa! This thread became so huge. I didn’t expected that xD Yesterday I couldn’t see the thread for lack of time, and now we have more than 70 posts o.o
Well, so I’ll pratice more with Omen. Someone said something about casual players, I’m casual too. Doesn’t have much time to play, but I always watchs champshionships of KI and some channels. I’m a fan of KI franchise. Read all the novella, and like to know more about the history. I also know some guys of this thread. Letalis is the General RAMM/Aganos player? Also watched he using Omen a few times. I asked about Omen because I’m far far away to be a skilled player, so I asked to you guys about your opinion about him. Because I already know I lack experience, but I like to play with him, so I’m not capable to say if he is bad or not. Also, I saw the list of top players yesterday, no one of the players until 100th position had Omen as main. Will be kinda cool to play with a different character xD
Honestly, I think “casual” is a pretty loose term for non-competitive players…
To me, it’s hard to describe a person as a casual if they are so invested in a game to purchase all of its merchandise, learn all the frame data, and find this message board and post frequently. I wouldn’t call this individual casual as much as hardcore.
My goodness, when I was on the competitive seen, the only crowd you had was the one around your arcade cabinet at an arcade. Those crowds were spontaneous and if you could win enough and do enough cool stuff, they would wolf whistle and cheer. It was an awesome time to be a gamer.
So in this respect, I would consider myself a hardcore KI fan. I was there when it began, and I’ve owned just about every incarnation of the game… even the… gameboy… version (also had GB version of MK1&2 and Primal Rage).
When I think of a casual, I think of a person who picks up the game every now and then, but doesn’t have any real investment to it.
So I would define the ranks as such…
Pro - Those who are sponsored and paid to play the game…
Semi-Pro - Those who participate in tourneys, but aren’t sponsored…
Hardcore Fighter - The fighter is more than just fun, it’s life…
Casual - dabbles with fighter, but doesn’t have any real commitment… @TheNinjaOstrich - Those that use Kim Wu…
I’m the most enthusiastic supporter in the world of keeping the game fun for players who don’t want to play a million hours or win tournaments. And I have scoffed at the streamers and tournament players who think they should have the right to dictate how the game evolves. But @SadisticRage76 I have to say I think you are barking up the wrong tree here completely. When you post stuff that is not correct and people point it out, that’s not ego driven superiority. I’m not sure how else you expect people to act on a forum.
I have plenty of issues with the FGC, but none of the guys posting in this thread have ever been anything other than helpful and thoughtful about the game in my experience, and I don’t see anything different here. You might want to stop and ask if maybe you don’t have a chip on your shoulder that is making you respond more negatively than you should. I didn’t see anyone maligning your skill or level of play, just debating the facts about the game with you. You’re the one who started poppin off about pros and casuals. It’s not a contest. Everyone can comment here but you should expect people to point out when you are incorrect about things. And I can’t believe you would actually try to argue that counter breakers were broken… c’mon man.
Debating about the definition of a pro is pointless. We have great players arguing that they aren’t pros and other players arguing that they are. And for what? Here’s your cookie
I know it’s a competetive game and people bring a competetive attitude to the discussions, but I don’t think we need to turn every thread into a ■■■■ measuring contest.
To be fair, everything is a ■■■■ measuring contest . Who is taller, thinner, faster, better looking, who has the better job, bigger house , nicer car, hotter wife, even better kids.
My thoughts and the thoughts of others, can be disagreed with, and that is fine. It still doesn’t make them any less valid to us.
Omen and Fulgore for example, can they be played fine the way they are now, sure. Now what can’t be proven is how many more players would have fun and enjoy them, if they were changed. I could easily say that keeping characters harder to play cuts down on the amount of players that we could have. This is part of the issue for me. Everyone want to have a bigger community, but only a few realize that the only way this happens is if the game is a little easier for some. I know some don’t want the game easier, otherwise there wouldn’t be so many nasty remarks made when someone wins a match with combo assist. I know right now that some players got mad just from using the words “combo assist”.
@Infilament. I see that you read the injustice 2 thread. It is the only place where I said that I play Tekken “recently” Kazuya’s lighting doesn’t effect the core of gameplay. His lighting moves are no different than moves of half the cast “Fulgore’s meter is”. It is one of the star moves “the position between crouching and standing”. I am not saying that I want Fulgore’s or any other character movements changed “how the combo is done”. Just the spin speed not dropping so fast. They could just beef up the rest of the cast closer to Fulgore instead of making him weaker. This is why I feel that omen needs a damage buff. There should have been more time spent bringing lower characters up, over trying to tone down a couple.
The problem with this is one small change to a character can lead to them being overpowered. It’s a reason kan ra and sadira were stronger than they ever should’ve been in the other seasons. It’s easier to tone a character who is already good by design. Fulgore and omen’s archetypes make them good by nature as they’re both extremely versatile charcters. Some times they do go a bit overboard in toning someone down (arbiter to me didn’t need the nerfs he got a patch or 2 ago.) But it’s easy to tone down a strong character because in most cases they remain strong. I.e. jago Fulgore Maya omen. And just those small changes to those characters makes it easier for other cast members to deal with them now (glacius does much better than against jago now for example.)[quote=“SadisticRage76, post:86, topic:21386”]
This is why I feel that omen needs a damage buff
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If he got that then he’d more than likely end up losing something in return. I would get a lot of messages as s3 started saying how the ■■■■ am I suppose to deal with omen. And I still do tbh. If he hit harder on top of everything he has…yeah no need to say anything.
This is a really disjointed paragraph that I’m having a really hard time following, but:
I didn’t read the Injustice thread, I just mentioned Kazuya randomly as an example. If you also happen to be learning Kazuya, then it’s a neat coincidence.
Kazuya’s electrics don’t change the game if you can do them? Are you sure about that, pal?
I think it’s a huge misconception in the FGC that it’s safe to just always buff low tier characters to create balance. Lots of people say this all the time… just buff the low tier, why you have to nerf the top tier? But the answer is really nuanced and almost certainly, nerfs need to come alongside buffs in order to prevent power creep and situations that spiral way out of control super fast. What people really should be thinking about is decision making and creativity; do patches allow more interesting decision making without making a character useless? If so, then it’s probably a good change, and sometimes that needs to involve nerfs (to remove degenerate strategies that have no decision making involved, etc).
Omen with more damage (and the same character otherwise) would be a huge, huge mistake.
I didn’t say it was any safer to buff the lower tier characters over the higher tiered ones. I know most intelligent people are not saying ton just give a lower tier some big damage buff and be done. I am sure that most players when they comment that a character should be stronger, they don’t mean a 25%+ boost. When I said that I think Omen should be buffed, I mean a 2-4% damage buff to his kicks.
There are characters that look better on paper, than they really are. I know that some people just see the tools and think “he can do this”, but does anyone wonder how useful some of the tools are in a real match for the average player? Sure, Omen has this great move that does all this PD, but it is never really used unless someone wants to win that exact way.
No one thinks Omen is strong because of Demonic Despair though. The things I and other players are citing are things that are demonstrably good (and practical) in a real fight. That’s the whole point of evaluating the toolset.
You could straight up remove DD and Omen’s tier placement (whatever it is) wouldn’t move an inch. Because he has other tools, within neutral and within the combo game itself, that are really, really good.
How is it not good on paper? On paper it is a move that does 100% PD. Even if the first combo after is broken, that still leaves 50% PD. Not counting the new raw and PD when. You start the 2 Combo to cash it out.
Its like saying that Tusk’s impale (F+MP from far away) is great because of damage. Is a bad button because its huge startup makes it extremely hard to land.
When you have to judge a particular move, you don’t do it just looking at what it does, you have to consider how viable is to land it. DD is a bad move because is hard to land, is expensive, and even if you land it, you have nothing guaranteed since you have to manage to open your opponent again AND not be broken to get some results.
On top of being hard to land, to go for demonic despair you have to not use any meter, and then if you do land it or you miss it you now have no meter. You’re essentially severely handicapping yourself the entire match just to go for a move that is easily avoided, telegraphed from a mile away, and not even guaranteed to win you the match.
It’s slow as ■■■■, uses 3 bars when literally every other use of meter he has is better, and doesn’t guarantee a single point of damage. The move is obviously bad.
On paper = 25 frames of startup. Moves have to be extremely good to overcome 25 frames of startup, and a short range, not invincible, 3 bar super isn’t where I’d put “extremely good”.
