good, but i prefer eyedol design in the KI comic. would be perfect and cool.
This is how I picture EyedolâŠsome what. A Doom, Dark Souls, Lord of the Rings / Mordor style Warlord.
Tusk came form a Conan guy to a man who obtained immortality. Eyedol could also get his character revised to make him work. The point I was making that not everyone liked Tusk, Kim Wu, or Maya in the old KI. Even Riptor, Thunder and Cinder got more support than they did during season 1âs development. Also Just because Andyâs made his argument doesnât mean he wants people to agree with him. This also never stopped people form supporting Eyedol nor did it change anyone opinions on other topics that contradicted his.
Now on the modernizing part, people looked at Gargosâs old design and saw some typical gargoyle. Now in this new KI he is reimagined as a demonic lord who poses a threat to the universe. We donât have to modernize him necessarily, we could just revise him to something else.
Also I was not looking for making Eyedol to be retained anatomically. I know the reason for why the old characters looked the way they did was due to technology being limited at the time. even I was against doing that. The point I was making was to revise Eyedol. I find it funny how you told me I was not looking at other posts (which I was working on that post at the time when others came before I finished it) and you assume that I was trying to bring back Eyedol 100%? models of that quality wouldnât even land someone a job in the game industry much less as vfx for cinema.
Eyedol CAN be More than just a two headed Cyclops.
Instead of being a warlord, why not an Oni, or someone who works for Gargos (just an example)
The same people who hated Eyedol did say that had a right to their opinion on Eyedol didnât they? so how come the Eyedol fans canât say they want him in? While you are correct that this isnât about rights, people both for and against Eyedol are entitled to their opinion, but both sides should be respectful. You donât help the situation by telling one to be respectful.
As bad â â â as Shadow Jago is, he doesnât add to the diversity of what makes KIâs roster unique compared to most fighting games. this is literally the only game were you can pit a Dinosaur against a werewolf. It may not be as bad as adding another guest character but it still doesnât help diversity that much.
Now that being said, I doubt Eyedolâs new design and revision (assuming he makes it) isnât going be welcomed by everyone. But it will make some people happy.
and just because shadow orchid is a wanted by fans doesnât mean I would support it. Iâm also still against adding more guest characters in this KI. Iâm not sure were you stand on character diversity, but I think itâs one of things that made KI memorable along with the crazy combos.
People are free to ask for shadow Orchid if they like. I just doubt she would add much to the roster.
I can understand the annoyance when it comes to fanboys, but not all people who support a character are disrespectful.
What about a Doom-inspired look for eyedol?
Might make a good accessory set. 
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Personally Shorchid would be one of the very VERY VERY last things Iâd ever put into KI. Iâd obviously put her over Joanna Dark whom Iâd never want involved in KI. Because thatâs just another guest taking up a possibly more original KI character. However if/when ever such a case occurs where SHorchid is the very last character, Iâd consider it. Otherwise make her a skin. Although I donât see why Orchid has to have a shadow version of herself. Because Jago got one? might as well make one for the rest of the cast.
In all honesty Iâd like to see what the devs can do with Eyedol. Iâm sorry you ran into a few fanboys who were unable to be respectful towards other forum goers. I will agree that was a tad obnoxious. But I still think Eyedol returning would be an interesting edition to the game. Especially over a character that wonât even expand te universe like a guest.
OH by the way my brother DIDNâT say heâd retain exact same anatomy like the old KI models cause you have to admit those were bad. What heâs saying is Eyedol could retain the fact that heâs a two headed cycloptic monster. But other than that Iâm sure thereâs still some stuff they can do with him that could make him better. That is what he means by modernization: Make Eyedol better in some form. Tusk can be summarized as a big blonde dude with a tattoo that swings a giant mutha â â â â â â â sword. Eyedol is a two headed cyclops that weilds a big â â â weapon. How they can go about that weâll see.
So, if the Eyedol + stage bill was a full $1million, you think the Eyedol fanbase could hit that target? Crowdfunding is rarely anywhere near as successful as it needs to be to successfully fund the things the fans want.
No.
âŠuh? 
People provide their arguments in the hopes that readers will update their view of the world upon reading them, either by agreeing or by saying âyouâre wrong and hereâs why.â If Andy makes a post arguing rationally that position X is wrong, and then you follow up by just asserting position X a few posts later with no counterargument as though Andyâs post doesnât exist, then youâre demonstrating an unwillingness to engage views which differ from your own, and youâre making people who engage you restate all of the points which have been made already because youâre refusing to do the cognitive work to keep up with the debate.
I donât think we disagree here per se.
The anti-Eyedol crowd rebutted some people complaining about people expressing anti-Eyedol sentiment in this thread by pointing out that the thread is asking why people hate Eyedol. Thatâs not so much about rights as it is about suitability of a genre of discussion here.
It sure as hell wasnât a statement that people who want Eyedol canât speak their minds and engage the anti-Eyedol arguments, as a matter of rights or even the less formal matter of suitability â itâs pretty apparent that this is another thread for pro- and anti-Eyedol camps to argue with each other.
Also, see:
It might help to point out that telling people to be respectful is not equivalent to saying that people have no right to be disrespectful. If we must talk rights, in some freedom of expression sense people can be as disrespectful as they want; but also this is a Microsoft- (or IG-?)owned venue which means your absolute rights may be curtailed by what they want on their website.
Regardless, respectfulness is a social good. To some extent we have the right to be very disrespectful in the way we treat each other, but itâs hard to argue that itâd be reasonable of us to do so, or that people should treat us well if we insist on treating others unkindly. Rights are far from the final word on what you should or shouldnât do when interacting with others.
I guess what Iâm saying is, does Shago (or Shorchid) detract from the diversity (or any other aspect of the game you hold dear), even if refusing the Shadow character doesnât gain some other content or feature in its absence?
I mean, for guest characters, I get it: every slot taken up by a guest is a slot that could otherwise have been an original character, or Eyedol or someone else you want. The guestâs presence loses you something. Similarly, people are up in arms about things like the lighting and whatever else they believe is behind only three new stages getting added to the game. On the other hand, turning down Shorchid seems toâve just led to the community fund getting scrapped and MS funding the competitive scene directly. I donât think the community gains anything by turning down Shorchid at all.
She doesnât have to. Isgreen ran a poll on the subject, looking for a financially workable incentive for the community fund, and Shorchid apparently won.
Iâm a little more worried about how fanboys treat devs. If the creative director states his reasons for not wanting to do Eyedol, you can respectfully disagree, sure â but when Isgreen stated his reasons, others got petty and disrespectful about it. That sort of thing makes devs less interested in interacting with fans, not to mention demonstrates a lack of gratitude for the work they put in.
If that was the case considering all the backlash they got with retro skins, different stages, etc. Youâd be surprised they didnât quit back then. Obviously though they have scaled things back a bit. But fanboys who were disrespectful had been doing that way before Eyedolâs return is even brought up.
Heck when you consider when they made Omen as a thank you to the community guess what happened then? those who were ungrateful sure showed by spitting in their face.
I think Eyedol Fanboys are not the biggest concern but hey thatâs why you gotta have their back. Heck you think that was bad there was a guy WAAYYY back on the season1 forums who said KI would be dead on arrival because Orchidâs BUST wasnât big enough. I mean â â â â when she was first shown, HALF THE TOPICS in her section were about her BUST!..Lol I mean wow!
Thereâs obviously way worse things out there. But frankly you wuldnât have to worry about that same amoutn of backlash if Eyedol actually makes it in. Some will complain butif ya ask me thatâs a hell of alot better than what would happen if those with the shortest fuses loose their â â â â over Eyedol not coming back at all.
Besides I still fail to see the reasoning for a Shadow Orchid other than Jago got one. So I donât know what the reasoning of those who voted for her.
I could explain a few other reasons why Eyedol could be in. Like what the devs can do to reimagine him. I donât think Eyedol would be super super hard to work with simply because weâve seen the dev can do on their best days. These guys did things where the game had to adjust in some form to accommodate them, like Aganos is so â â â â big the camera has to zoom out.
Eyedol wouldnât really be that complex from a modeling standpoint. And there is untapped ways they can do with Eyedol, some suggested a stance switching character as one why not give that to Eyedol?
If they can give characters like Kim, Maya, and Tusk to be awesome in KI. Even someone as underestimated as Eyedol can to. At least from my perspective anyway.
Case in point Iâd much rather a new original KI character and Eyedol as opposed to a guest or a âshadow versionâ of a character which is merely better as a skin instead of another character slot.
Okay I read his post and I acknowledge his view on the debate, but I still support Eyedol.
and I did read his post about how the old Eyedol was awful to him. Which Iâm guess because of how bad Eyedol was (in his perspective) he and Zdhome are against having him come back in this KI.
But if you recall during seasonâs development. People said the same things about Kim, Tusk, Maya and Gargos. Are you trying to tell me that I should support shadow orchid? (which is still not all that unique to me) Also in case you havenât notice, this kind of stuff has happened before. What else are you looking for in my argument? You donât have to agree with me, but try to make assumptions of others.
To summarize this post: Just cause Andy hated Eyedol back then. Doesnât mean Eyedol has to get pushed out.
Fnrslvr may agree. But at te end of it all. Itâs an opinion. The devs will decide and will do their reasoning otherwise.
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@Fnrslvr
By the way I read more of his post and I guess what? even Andy thinks that Eyedol can still be better in the this KI. and as @JEFFRON27 said
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We funded shadow jago in less then like 5 hours I doubt we would have trouble hitting a fund for eyedol
Thats what I meant to type and it corrected and wrote DOOD lolâŠI fixed it!
If there is enough demand for him then yes it can work.
Not that this is necessarily the way you intended it, but itâs a pretty sorry state of affairs if devs have to take a line of action just to curb abusive blowback.
Regardless, I think weâre on the same age with finding a lot of the community disrespect towards the devs unpleasant.
It was literally âwhich shadow character would you like?â, with the options ruled down to three female characters (Orchid, Maya, Kim Wu?) because the devs want more female characters in the game.
The point Iâm making is that a shadow character likely doesnât come near to displacing other characters or features, so this equivocation is flawed.
In place of Eyedol? No. At all, even? Not necessarily.
Basically, if the point youâre making can be responded to by just quoting something at you that someone wrote earlier, then you should revise your point so that this is no longer the case.
Thatâs not what Iâm getting at at all â indeed I described a few possible approaches that I thought held some potential. I particularly like the idea of turning Eyedol into the Lovecraftian eldritch abomination type of character that turned up in the community poll. I just get the impression from reading a lot of the views of very pro-Eyedol people that those approaches would be seen as a grave sullying of the character by those people, so I assume that the character that pro-Eyedol people want is this âtrue to the originalâ thing that I donât think would work.
That seems pretty fanciful. Maybe a better barometer of community crowdfunding potential would be a sample of Kickstarter game campaigns, where even the most successful campaigns tend to fall far short of an actual game budget and need to be supplemented by publisher money.
Why the hate?
Because he was in the poll, which means he is being considered, and people that thought they had thoroughly convinced the internet that he wasnât going to happen because Dev A said thing B & guy C made argument D, & they found out they might be wrong about him being a lost cause after all, so now they have to go out & re-convince everybody, smashing all their hard work to pieces, which makes them rather put out. It really has little to do with adding Eyedol, as with any online argument, and more because they poured themselves into a debate they thought they won & found out their efforts were in vein.
Anyway, Iâm not going to add any more to this thread regarding why Eyedol should be in the gameâŠIâve done more than my fair share in other threads, other than to say I think he should be, just like all of the other OG characters.
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Well yes it would not work that way. Cinder was looked at as a man on fire. Some people still donât like the new design that he has. and if these people start lashing out on the devs well they may not of heard of retros.
Also while I agree the devs donât deserve the backlash they receive. It is nothing new. and like Jeff said, we had this backlash crap happen when double helix was working on the game.
Hmmm I never thought of that possibility.
Adding more females can be accomplished without adding Orchid as a female into the game. and I am not saying the devs HAVE to put in Eyedol. Iâm simply stating that either way we can expect backlash from the community in some form. Iâm just saying that if Eyedol did come back vs Eyedol never coming back depending on what the devs do will vary the reaction. Thatâs the point I am trying to make. I was likely not clear enough according to your statement. I was simply predicting based off past events that have occurred on the forum.
If ya ask me a new âshadow characterâ technically does not count. And displacing case in point: if the shadow characters takes separate slot on the character select screen. It is displacing a character. Simple as that.
to be fair shago animation and asset already existed in the boss shago fight and in jago drastically reduced the price needed to make him. eyedol would absolutly defenitly need more money to create well. especially if multiple iteriations are needed to land at the right one while in developement
I donât hate him.
Heâs always number 2 or 3 on my list. So very respectable if I may say so. Never no.1 though.