Why it's important to have fun playing a character

Characters Kan-Ra
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This may not be the most accurate title for my thoughts but it does relate to this character and my stance on it at the moment.

You see, since patch 3.7 I’ve been experimenting with kan ra ever since I came back from the KI World Cup and i honestly am not having fun with this character anymore. I can’t recapture off of my command grab from sand spike st.lk because reasons. I also cannot cancel crouching hk into special moves. It feels like I’m getting less and i don’t know why.

This is not a complaint towards any entity or development team, this is my personal feeling about the character. I just feel like the time I’m putting into this character is not going to add up and satisfy my want to enjoy playing KI. I HAVE TO TRY A LOT HARDER to do things that other characters can do easier. The combat design of the character is surrounded by the availability of his sand but ever since the sand geyser bug i have less situations to use the sand. I want to feel like i can beat a decent number of the cast with this character with ppl at the same skill level as me but characters such as glacius, arbiter, and kilgore have similar playstyles yet need to take less risks on wake up. Kilgore can explode ALMOST for free (ppl haven’t learned to grab him yet), not to mention he has an INVINCIBLE DP. glacius and arbiter have wake up that doesn’t inflict damage to themselves and they can instinct cancel it. I don’t think kan ra benefits in other areas like cursing the opponent our long ranged command grabs because of i don’t hot these moves in certain situations in getting a HARD PUNISH.

I’ll cut the technical complaining short, the real purpose of this thread was to show that while kan ra is a cool looking character that i like, I REALLY LIKE, i don’t feel like i can win with him, and thus i am not having FUN with the character.

Having fun with a character you play isn’t just about thinking that the character looks cool and enjoy what they do, but also being able to express yourself through how you play the character. I feel like since s3 has started i can’t do kan ras combo trait because certain normals blow out the combo and i have not received an answer for why this is the case (please watch the video provided below to see what I’m illustrating)

The most fun I’ve had playing kan ra is coming to the forums and exploring new things to do with the character, and while fubuki142 is doing good things with the character (kudos to him btw). . . .I’M NOT FUBUKI, and i don’t play like fubuki. (Tiny rant incoming: i honestly think a lot of ppl that lose to top level kan ra play have a lack of knowledge on what they are getting hit by, and if they did then they would have little to no issue with kan ra).

I don’t think I’m wrong when i say that i think this character is DEAD. Like, I’m an Omen main, which means i hardly see anyone playing my character. However i can literally count on one finger the ppl who play kan ra. Which is sad because I WANT TOO BELIEVE IN THIS CHARACTER. . .but I’m tired, tired of loosing because characters like jago, glacius, shago, fulgore, etc don’t have to deal with my scarabs because they have better mobility and projectile options. I’m tired of this character having bugs. I’m tired of this character having a large learning gap with hardly ANY reward. I’m just. . . .do tired you guys. . . . .

. . . . . . . .i don’t think i want to play this character anymore. :cold_sweat: welp, thanks for listening.

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@HWFREEKYJASON @F3Sleep @SaltyFoal586648 @TMB0BBYNEWP0RT @lHagenl @BubbRubb4Real @JINXHAND any thoughts are welcome.

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I will say they did make scarab linker have less push back in 3.7 according to the patch notes. However, I see what your talking about. Kan Ra is in need of a healthy middle ground: something in between his original design and his current situation.

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I entirely agree. I spend more time hating playing Kan-Ra than I have fun playing him. I love Kan-Ra to ■■■■■■■ death but when the rest of the cast (Im looking at Glacius on this ne) get game changing buffs while Kan-Ra couldn’t even make top 32 at KIWC, (Yes I know this doesn’t represent how good he is, I’m using it as a very good example though) or when the devs make mistakes like in 3.7 where he is quite literally BROKEN, I don’t have fun playing him anymore. And to add to your…

I have been playing Hisako a lot recently and she is, without a doubt, as good/better than my Kan-Ra. The time i put into Kan-Ra just doesn’t add up. Yes I can play him like a beast, but i work way too ■■■■ hard to fall just short of other characters and not speak up about it.
I have 1,298.5 hours as Kan-Ra.
I have 155.82 hours as Hisako.

Can you teach me that math?

I have quite literally been waiting MONTHS for the Kan-Ra player community to speak up about this so I’m not jumpin in looking like a retard. I was starting to think that I was just bad at the game, or Kan-Ra didn’t suit me. That’s clearly not the case. I will add A TON more if others seem to care for us Kan-Ra mains, but before I go I will leave this to stir some trouble:

Risk > Reward; for Kan-Ra is the dumbest thing in the game.
Effort > Reward; for Kan-Ra is pretty ■■■■ bonkers.
Kan-Ra > Anyone else; Choose someone else. It’s not worth it.
##Playing Kan-Ra no longer feels worth it.

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I haven’t played with him much since the new patch came out but I would like to go into the dojo and explore some of the changes. But reading some of these changes makes me feel a bit discouraged. I love Kan Ra and I’m not going to give up on playing him because he is one of the more interesting characters in the game. I had a large gripe with the nerfs he got at the beginning of S3 and it seemed to me that the reason why he was changed is because “Well he was very annoying to fight”. I don’t think thats a very good reason. Lots of characters in this game are annoying to fight. That’s why you learn the MU and learn how to fight the character. At least the developers have given him some good buffs to counteract it but I still believe that he is a shadow of his former self.

But I will say that in my experience with playing the character at the moment (I’m ok but not anywhere near the best) is that he is very polarizing for the opponent. Either the opponent knows many of Kan Ra’s moves and can easily counter them or the opponent has absolutely no idea how to fight Kan Ra. It’s interesting how it seems like there is no middle ground. I hardly feel like I out play someone when I play as Kan Ra but more so the opponent isn’t familiar with the MU.

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Honestly, Kan Ra (specifically Sleep’s S2 Kan Ra) is one of two characters that REALLY sold me on KI. I started w/ S3 PC launch, and have since acquired an XB1 just for this game. It is the only game I play anymore, and the only game I have any interest in. Between my busy homelife and my medical woes, KI is my ONLY hobby, and a big part of that was Kan Ra.

I don’t play Kan Ra. I have never played Kan Ra. I mucked about with him in the lab for a good while when I first got the game, and realized that in order to do the same stuff other characters can do, I would have to put in WAYYYY more work. The effort:payout ratio just didn’t seem to be worth it for me.

So, here I am, not playing Kan Ra, and I feel you. I want to, but damn, that’s so so much work. < shrug >

Since I’ve just been on this “play characters to level 50 and have fun” kick, I’m realizing that lots of characters in this game are TONS of work, particularly characters Sleep plays. Damn him for making everything look so easy. XD

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@ItzTymeToDul I havent played 3.7 yet and probably wont till next Wednesday I will save my comment for then

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OP, I just wanted to say that you do a really good job here of stating your case without insulting anyone or bringing all the other negativity I see when people tend to voice a legitimate (or illegitimate) gripe. So props to you. :slight_smile:

I must say though, this makes me sad. Kan Ra was my favorite character in season 2, not because he was annoying, but because his tool set was so fun and unique to what I’d experienced previously. Plus he looked cool, had that cool voice, he was a freakin mummy and I still think now what I thought back then; he’s one of the coolest character designs, top to bottom, I’ve ever seen.

However, once he got bopped with the nerf bat at the beginning of season 3, I came to the conclusion that the effort of trying to operate this character in the direction to best utilize his tool set wasn’t worth the payoff versus what other characters could do minimize that tool set.

Whether it was reduced damage, scarabs not hitting as much, certain strings not connecting anymore the way they had previously, characters abilities to consistently neutralize my work, other characters seemingly not needing to work nearly as hard for similar results or his sand losing some of it’s utility in general / losing out to other characters moves or mechanics, it feels like he’s being structured to be less annoying, which I suppose I can understand in some aspects.

But when enough of his useful tech is minimized or de-emphasized and not replaced with other, presumably less annoying, but equally useful tech, it makes him feel like a character that has a lot going on, but none of it really comes together to make him competitive, at least to the point where the effort to lay traps, throw scarabs, force the opponent to make decisions you want them to make etc pays off in a satisfying way.

Now, don’t jump on me here, as I say all of that as someone with lower level skills. I freely admit that, and this is the (limited) perspective that I bring to the table. Call it the committed casual player perspective. I have over a 1,000 hours of play time logged, I have every character at level 50, so I do try to get to know each character and I look up tech, watch videos, etc, but I’ll never be confused with anyone of tournament level skill.

So while a Kan Ra player with far more expertise in mummy version 3.7 can do well, I’m sure, I don’t think that can be the sole measurement of the characters viability (and definitely not their fun factor) and probably shouldn’t be if people of all skill levels appear to be leaving the character (sorry, don’t mean to speak for anyone else here).

So yeah, I think it’s worth discussing why people might be leaving the character and perhaps just as importantly, what to do about it. Obviously, this is an extremely complex character to balance, I’m sure, and I do think that making him less annoying is a valid priority, regardless of how high you’d place it among other priorities. But either way, it would be great if both players and the developers could find some ways of making him more threatening again, to make his tool set feel more useful, while also not ratcheting up the annoyance factor to season 2 levels.

Because for me, I started playing him less and less as season 3 went on and finally just moved on entirely to Sadira, who while having slightly lower damage than I’d like, can still do enough damage and has fun / style for days.

I was really hoping that 3.7 would help bring back some of the fun factor again for Kan Ra, but maybe more of a full scale reshaping of the character could be done in a roster rebalance? Not saying they’ll do another one of those, but I always tend to enjoy them, and if they opt to go that route, it’d be great if they took another substantial swing at Kan Ra and really tried to dive in to what’s fun about him, what would make him more fun, how to make him more threatening, but not make him more obnoxious to fight against.

If that involves some substantial reworkings in his sand related moves, then so be it. I hope they’ll put the effort in, because I think that this character is freaking awesome on paper, I just don’t like him very much right now as is.

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I mean, no one’s gonna dislike you for struggling with a character that is designed to be hard to use. And the bug with cr.HK is REALLY bad right now.

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Completely agree. I feel similar about Eyedol. I love the character and I think IG did a killer job on his redesign but his random stance switch gimmick kind of makes him not fun for me. It seems like every time I need warrior I get put in mage and every time I would rather have mage im warrior lol

I know he can punch himself to eventually force a change but at a point its just like ehhh ill stick to my Spinal and Fulgore lol

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Haven’t played 3.7 either. The problem with kanra i think is people still dont know how to fight against him still. So there under the impression "he’s still good. Which is not 100% incorrect , hes good but not like winning good once people take him too training mode forreal start shadow countering and punishing specific things its GOODNIGHT. People that run across one would never lose to these s3 current kanra because he is far too weak right now. I have a full understanding how too fight him, because I’ve played him for an entire year. I think fubuki is the best online hands down but if i still played kanra vs top players people would never lose to him or me. Nobody knows the the s3 kanra match up its working now but its all basic gimmicks but that only will take you so far. Kanra needs (A) buff that Will give him a true fighting chance vs the cast

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I think they did an awesome job of designing Eyedol’s move set. Making two viable characters that can essentially help one another was a stroke of genius IMO. My only issue is the transition animation. I’m sure it’s necessary from both a gameplay perspective as well as a technical perspective (perhaps?) but the zooming in, the sort of awkward pause in the action… It’s a tad off putting.

Still, I’ll take that if it means having such a unique design that forces me to randomly change my strategy. I think that’s a fun concept, but I can see why that might not appeal to everyone.

Not to put you on the spot, but as someone that’s forgotten more about Kan Ra than I’ll ever know, do you have any idea what would give him a true fighting chance against most of the cast? You say that he needs a buff and that he’s too weak right now. Is it just a matter of just buffing damage on certain moves to make other aspects of his move list more threatening or is it allowing players to connect certain strings that don’t currently connect, or are there other aspects that could make him more viable without making him too annoying to fight against? Just curious.

Oh hey, meant to say this before, but congrats on winning KIWC, man!

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Oh yeah I agree with this all the way! They did an amazing job but for w.e reason I seem to struggle using the character more than I do with the others I play. I know this is 99% the fault of myself and not the character but after a certain amount of play time it’s like ok, maybe it just wasn’t meant to be lol

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Y’know I definitely wouldn’t mind if kan ra was slated for a moveset rework. I may not play him but it feels like his moveset is too powerful/frustrating when good but not fun when weak.

Like idk less zoning with scarabs and more ranged grappling with sand to expand his movement options/ more setups and different ways to grab the enemy. Kinda like swamp thing in injustice now that I think about it.

Like for example you can do a ranged tracking command grab similar to glacius shatter when the enemy is on a sand trap at the cost of doing multiple sand spike in one spot.

Or maybe more animal summons like the scorpion and the antlion that help his game plan like trap door spiders or maybe giant arms and etc.

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No I totally get that 100%. I haven’t connected with every character in the game, and it’s not for lack of trying. When Raam came out, I was like “yes! A full on grappler in KI!” but I had something more like King from Tekken in my mind, with multipart throws, perhaps laced with autos for that signature KI combo appeal, as opposed to what we wound up with, which was a lot closer to Zangief.

I liked Zangief in SF2 and SF4, but something about having that specific type of grappler in KI doesn’t really feel all that compelling. Plus, Raam’s throws are kinda plain looking. Granted, I think it’d look kinda weird if he was powerbombing characters or suplexing them, but multiple variations on “pick up, stab, slam to ground” don’t really do it for me. That’s okay though. Raam has some cool mechanics with kryll and his OTGs what not, and I think he’s more fun to use than Zangief (and a little easier on my left thumb lol) but still, for KI, there are other characters I prefer.

Same goes for Maya. I look at the stuff Pink Diamond and LCD do in tourneys and all I an think is “holy crap, she looks insanely fun!,” but taking her up to level 50 was not an ideal experience lol. I have zero style with her and that’s not even 99% my fault, that’s 100% my fault, no question.

For whatever reason, my brain simply doesn’t react to “oh the dagger bounced off, now I have to do this,” so my combos with her are the lowest of the low level. I always say that I should give her another shot and maybe I will some day, but in her, I see a very well designed character that simply doesn’t click with me for whatever reason.

No problem, of course. As there are tons of other awesome character designs that I do connect with. I think with Kan Ra though, that’s kinda the hard part for me in that I both really enjoyed his character design from a gameplay perspective and connected with it at one point, but now I don’t.

I mean, if a character doesn’t appeal to you, but they’re well designed, that’s one thing. But to enjoy a character, and then enjoy them a good deal less over time due to changes… Well I don’t know, part of me thinks that there might be more adjustments needed, especially if players are unable to adapt and feel more compelled to move on.

You can put that on the players for not wanting to adapt, but if people just don’t feel that the juice is worth the squeeze, then it might not be the worst idea in the world to try and make some changes, not to what was done before, as we know why that wasn’t the right path, but to find a new way in to making the character viable, threatening and fun without making them annoying.

I actually meant to put this out to everyone that thinks Kan Ra could use some adjustments. What kind of solutions would you suggest for making Kan Ra in to a character that would be more worth effort and work put in? How would you make him, as I said above, more viable, threatening and fun without making him too annoying to fight against?

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not having fun w/Kan-Ra … switch to Aganos!!!

jk … seriously, I’ve had a buddy (who used to play Thunder) take sudden interest in Kan-Ra and he’s always telling me how much fun he has with him. I dont have his thoughts on 3.7 Ra yet, but I think he’ll still be playing him.

Bugs can definitely hurt so I hope they’re fixed asap, if these are truly detrimental bugs. I haven’t tested this out in 3.7, in 3.6 Aganos had a bug that sometimes caused Natrual Disaster (blanka ball) to only hit once instead of twice and leave Aganos open for free punishes. While this bug isn’t detrimental to winning with Aganos, I’ve had losses due to it and that’s … very rough. I feel your pain, man.

It sucks that you’re not having fun with him Dul. Sorry to hear that. However, I feel people who play what others perceive as “struggle” characters have a really different mentality of what fun is and that definition is more based on “winning” or “not needing to work as hard as other characters to win”, which is totally fine. Talking with various people shows that before the cup last weekend Raam and Aganos weren’t “tournament viable” characters you can “win” with. And they may or may not have valid points. I still have a lot to learn and I thoroughly enjoy the process of learning/unveiling/discovering what strategies to use against all of the different matchups, so I guess learning how to win against my bad matchups is fun for me, and others may not be up for that type of challenge.

My bottom line, Dul:
1 What is/was fun about Kan-Ra?
2 Can you still do those fun things with Kan-Ra?
3 Are there other strategies you can discover or do with Kan-Ra til bugs are worked out?
4 Have you reached out to Fubuki or other Kan-Ra players you feel optimize the character? (I know FreekyJason will give his input next week)

Good luck in your quest for fun! Hopefully Omen and your other characters are still fun for you!
Also, it was nice to meet you in person at the cup! Sets again soon!

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If i felt there was an up side to why this character is hard to use then I wouldn’t have made this post. Maybe I’m just frustrated because i don’t know how to make it work.

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:innocent::innocent::innocent::ok_hand::ok_hand::ok_hand::+1::+1::sunglasses:

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You speaking the gospel right now. Thank you.

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That just about sums up what it’s like to play Kan-Ra, and all of our issues / complaints.
The @developers may not understand what we mean on the surface of this quote, but that’s the foundation of what everything is built off of

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