Very true! At first it took a bit to get the hang of Shagos crossup divekick or his surged slide. Nonetheless, anytime I see someone using him I know I can get the best of him, especially as a Jago.
Yes! Please complain about Shadow Jago so people stop complaining about Fulgore. Even though Shadow Jago has sweet tools, hes just got gimmicks, no different from pre nerf Kan-Ra. Last update neutered Shadow Jagos + strings from specials. He is punishable. He isnt safe, one proper block gives you an opening. His footsies are Jago footsies. If you lose to him, youâd lose to that persons Jago too.
His divekick isnât an overhead. If you canât react to it, crouch block. Or jump when he does it no combo confirm only a stray hit.
While I agree heartily that Shago is hardly an OP character or without weaknesses, I have to say that I think this right here simply isnât true. Shago and Jago have very, very little in common, and the skills required to beat Jago arenât necessarily the skills that will put you over the top on Shago. Shago is his own animal, and short of âmaximize on every openingâ, there isnât a ton of stuff that carries over, from Jago or any other character. When you fight Shago, most of the cast has to adjust their game specifically for that MU.
And S2 Kan-Ra had plus frame pressure up close that led into counter hit/command grab 50/50âs. He definitely wasnât all gimmicks.
Who else thinks shago is low tier ?
If youre playing high skill level, Shadow Jago and Jago are similar. Dirty crossups, and such. Just Jago is a lot more potent in footsies which is Shadow Jagos weakness. If you can block his gimmicks, his footsies are not as good as Jagos. Shadow Jago has to spend meter or do one string of normals to be considered safe. Jago can do a lot more pressure while safe. What opens people up are the random dive kick mixups or stray crossup hits. Which play into his gimmick. Most people rely on his dive kick since that is his best move. Learn to block that and youll beat most shadow jagos that dont have a secondary adaptive gameplay from footsies to tick throw confirms.
Jagoâs gameplan isnât dirty crossups, though.
And Jagoâs cross ups arenât nearly at the level that Iâd call âdirtyâ. He has a really good and ambiguous jump+HP, but his cross-up game isnât nearly crazy enough (by KI standards) to enter into the realm of âdirtyâ. And he definitely doesnât rely on them like Shago does.
Yes, Jagoâs crossups are not as dirty as Shadow Jagoâs by any means, but as you said. He definitely doesnât rely on them like Shadow Jago does. Since you know Shadow Jago is somewhat reliant on them, you know what his goal is, and thatâs how you create a strategy to beat him. If you force a Shadow Jago to play footsies, youâre playing a lesser Jago which is what I was getting at before. In neutral and footsies, they have most of the same normals, slide kick instead of wind kick, fireballs are faster but less hit stun, so not pressure safe. There are differences sure, but you can treat them similar. Shadow Jago you can almost always crouch block unless he jumps or does back HK. So you should almost never get hit by a raw slide. When I play Shadow Jago, Iâm surprised how much that actually works. Most of my pressure situations I wonât pressure without meter. Just a couple of normal pokes, tick throws into juggles, the dive kicks just donât work often enough until you mix up the opponent first. If you know thatâs what he is doing though, you will frustrate them and take the win.
@Infilament Never said that it was his gameplan. Just mentioned that it is there, but his footsies are better than Shadow Jagoâs which is where you beat Shadow Jago. Block the gimmicks and dominate him in neutral. If you can beat a Jago in neutral you can beat a Shadow Jago. If you canât beat a Shadow Jago in neutral, you wonât beat a Jago.
lol iâve been saying the same stuff since day 1 of shago. heâs really good but for stupid reasons
As an Aganos main, I can say that the matchup is an extremely tough one. Almost immediate jump HP from Shago at throw distance can beat his anti air flick if Aganos is not extremely on point. Itâs a bit difficult to keep in mind too as youâre also looking out for dash grab/crossup/slide/crossup slide. Also sometimes his divekick will crossup at extremely odd angles as well. Itâll look like he appears in front of you but then actually crossup. Itâs easy enough to punish his moves, itâs more that itâs hard to keep all of his options in mind when youâre such a big target. Thatâll always be the struggle of large body characters though.
Iâm not saying Shago needs nerfs or Aganos needs buffs, Iâm just saying that Shago can be an extremely tough matchup for some characters and I can see how people like OP come to this conclusion.
You canât really force that though, itâs not what the character is built for. Making a shago stop going for mix ups is like forcing a sadira to stop jumping. Itâs not gonna happen.
If you pressure them right it is. Shadow Jagos Dp isnt forward moving so you can pressure him on wakeup with the right spacing where you cant a Jago. He isnt safe when Jumping nor is he safe without meter. Keep him grounded. Im also Glad you mentioned Sadira. A matchup that is hard for Fulgore if she gets in the air. Yet I made sure they were not in the air.
My training partner is a shadow jago, and Iâve also faced the shago army more than once on ranked, so I have some semblance of credibility when I say this. Shago isnât op, and his weakness is pretty much all his stuff is on the unsafe side on block. Now yeah, that doesnât stop him from being disgusting, my friend says heâs bad which to that I say heâs crazy, but I do agree that shago has a lot more risk to his stuff then other characters. Blocking more and keeping a cool head will definitely help you a lot against this character, but itâs not going to automatically get you that W.
Heâs safe with meter.
Sorry, I misread your statement. Thought that âwithoutâ was a âwithâ.
I bump with so many Shagos, the only character I have that can scratch him is Hisako.
I donât know much about the game but he is a tough opponent, I think Iâve only won like 2 or 3 matches against him XD.
Agree with the 50/50 crazynes. Is like Iâm blocking mid, low, back, forward, air, head, everything XD.
Iâm with you on this. His inclusion in this game is tortureâhop on ladder, get matched against a bronze-tier Shago, then watch him guess break, spam fireballs and pick the tele-divekick or slide at random to connect 100% of the time. Then, watch him taunt and teabag in between matches.
The character is really hard to beat, not his players (at low levels, that is). By designing him, KIâs devs pour on the salt at levels bordering on sadism.
So, Iâm with you. How do you beat pizza cutter? How do you beat tele-divekick? How do you beat the slide? Everything is so fast, and they hit you in places that make you have to think about your blocking.
The best I can do with Glacius at Gold level is use the floaty jump and spear him to throw off his groove. Then, I need to focus every ounce of cognitive energy on blocking low or high correctly in order to punish his slide or his divekick. If he slides, then I have to switch my block at exactly the right time, or he punishes me from behind. Shatter feels like a completely dead move against Shago, because its start up is an eternity, and Shago can just press any button or combination on his controller to escape it.
I had trouble with Shago as well (main Glacius), but like so many others here have said, if you can successfully block, youâve got a window open. The thing is, he hits you in the places most low-tier players ignore. For the longest time I would not block lowâŠin lower ranks it mostly isnât necessary because nobody ever looks for a low as most moves in the game hit mid range. I was well halfway up the gold tier before I started worrying about it. My advice would be get into practice mode against Shago, and either record some moves with him doing some of the nasty stuff you keep getting hit by, or turn the AI up fairly high while you work on your blocking low and high and watching for mixups.
Have Hail out almost always, at least one. Its a good deterrent. Everything except Surge Divekick is unsafe on block. Also I believe everybody has a pattern to their breaking, and its especially easier to figure out at low levels of play. Iâd do what Wrath says, look into the most troublesome moved in practice.