What is Shadow Jago's weakness?

I’d be weary about that to be honest…I mean if you can safely pull one out, sure…but I’ve been the victim of many a slide trying to cover my butt with a hail or 2. But that’s just me.

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Low damage. That’s about it.

Easily punishable on block if he doesn’t use his surge ability or shadow moves (which also means he has to rely on a lot of meter). :wink:

For me the worst thing about Shago is his speed + my anticipation and slow reactions lol. When I am standing there, I am waiting for either slide, cross up slide, dive kick, cross up dive kick, dash in grab all at the same time lol I can block, but my issue is I just can’t seem to react to these things. I can go into practice and record him doing it and block it, but that is because I know which move is coming since I was the one that recorded it.

I just need to find a way to up my reactions lol if I could do that, I have a feeling I would not struggle with Shago’s quite as much.

Yeah. Blocking him ain’t easy though. Sometimes it’s pure luck blocking him to be honest. Not to mention that his slide is even harder to block online due to input lag. So, moot point.

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Input lag is part of the problem blocking him. Trust me, I know that double slide is coming and it still hits. Constantly.

Not necessarily - just pay attention to what he’s doing. If he divekicks a lot, block high. If he slides a lot, block low. Altenatively, if you’re fast enough, you can block low and if he does a divekick, the moment he disappears you can reverse your low block to a high block and then punish him after (assuming he doesn’t use the aforementioned surge ability or shadow meter, of course). If you’re worried about crossups, then simply dash backwards or forwards to get away, switch the direction of your block, or anti-air him (c.HP works really well for most characters).

One retarded thing about his design is that he’s able to block or tech after getting blocked on that slide. Makes it easy for him to just be completely brainless and see if it hits. Lame.

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Input lag? What? KI doesn’t use input lag based netcode. It uses roll back.

You can call it whatever you want. If I know or anticipate a move and I’m blocking it and my block doesn’t register (very common with Shadow Jago’s crossup slide) that’s a problem.

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Have you considered you were too slow? Plus I think a rework for him might happen do to all this hate.

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You’re probably just doing something at the time, or you’re not as fast as you think you are. I’ve never had that issue with the game, even when my internet connection is being crappy.

I just said that I know the move is coming. It’s not that hard to block something when you know in advance that the opponent keeps up the same pattern. It’s broken. You played me how many times now and you’re saying that I don’t know how to block a move cuz I’m a slow scrub? Lol.

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Okay guys, Shadow Jago isn’t the unbeatable monster you think he is, and I can tell you most of his best tools and stuff people constantly abused have been nerfed and brought in line greatly.

Some individual things to note and remember.

First, no special of his is safe on block, that’s all there is to that. All of them can be punished in some way, but you just have to know your characters best punish for those situations.

For dive kick, this one is obvious, and when you block it, pretty much anything should be free game as a punish. Basically, you just gotta be ready to read it correctly. One thing to remember is Shadow Jago’s distance from you. The further away he is from you, the less and less likely he can cross you up with it for a free hit. At closer ranges, it’ll take a slightly better read, but it’s not impossible. Also, the surge version of this move is now -6 on block instead of being +1, making it punishable if read correctly as well. The reason most people don’t punish either of these is because the opponent has conditioned you to block instead of reacting in any matter, so you gotta be aware of that and remember your punishes.

So mind your distance away from Shadow Jago as mid screen and further away, dive kick will have a lot of problems crossing up, so that eliminates one option to speak of, reducing the blocking guessing game. And both versions, surged or not, are punishable.

Endokuken is the tough one, but do remember they are pitiful damage and meter gain from long distance for him. You just have to be patient and close the distance, and mind jumping in on him could force you to eat air fireball as well. However, at point blank, the fireball is also punishable on block, which is fairly surprising. The only exception is the surged version, where using the surged fireball at point blank makes it safer on block, but just enough for him to be about even, nothing he is at an advantage at. Against shorter characters like Hisako though, the surged fireball can whiff, even at point blank range, putting him in a REALLY punishable position.

For slide kick, oddly enough, this one usually isn’t in play at closer ranges, where it should be used, and most tend to use it at longer distances where it’s horribly telegraphed, or where they can use the surged version to create a mix up situation. The surge version though is probably more unsafe than the non-surge version, as a simple jab can stuff it and set you up for and opener. The non-surged version though is always window enough for a free throw opportunity, and he’s generally always in range after it to be thrown, since it’s too negative for him to follow up with his invincible reversal, but not really negative enough for a heavy punish. If he likes to use the surged version a lot, mashing a crouching jab or some other fast, chainable move will stuff in the teleport phase of his animation, and can give you a combo though.

Finally, his uppercut. Horribly unsafe on block, both surged and non-surged. The problem is this move is useful for more than just a reversal though. The forward momentum version is a HUGE potential damage builder for his juggle combos, and at the right distance, you’ll see this as a potential anti-air, but without it being surged, followup is difficult to achieve. It’s also really easy to break if you figure out the strength, there are so many hits and not much difficulty in a correct timing break. But the versatility of the move puts it to use in ways more than just any ordinary DP would.

There is the possibility that he could use it as a crossup from teleport dash. It’s a difficult one to block, but if you do, it’s much more punishable now than it used to be, as it’s no longer the angled version on crossup that comes up, putting you opponent in a horrible position.

As for his Shadow moves, Shadow Endokuken is pretty safe, and most likely is a long distance punish to certain moves and also is trying to activate his shadow tether in instinct. Shadow Dive Kick is pretty bad on block, but you’re likely to only see it as a recap move really, but if by accident he uses it and is blocked, a good shadow counter is a great answer, or at least a throw could punish it without meter. If you can time it right, it also makes a horrible linker as the hits are easy to 1-2-3 combo break. Shadow Slide isn’t too awful bad to block at long distance, as it too is HORRIBLY telegraphed, and most characters can too shadow counter this for a punish, with some exceptions. Without meter, a throw is about the best you could probably do, but he may recover enough to be able to tech the throw, not really much you can do on that one.

The shadow version of his DP is a cashout ender, so you probably aren’t going to see this very frequently in a punishable situation at all, but on block, it’s still as bad as the non shadow or surged version on block.

Most of fighting Shadow Jago is know his range from you. Depending on the range the opponent is from you will dictate his fightstyle and psychology greatly. Shadow Jago, as negative on block as his moves are, is still a fairly aggressive fighter, and his game plan is greatly diminished at long distances. His best position is closer range, where his solid normals should dominate and he can use his grounded overhead. At this range he’s capable of high low and crossup mixup control. At long range, he shouldn’t have much surprise to him, really bringing down his potential. At longer ranges, he’ll be forced to use some blitz style offense which gets predictable quick.

At long range he’ll be relying on fireballs to build small meter. Nothing that’ll build much for a single stock of shadow, but will build him up for a surge move, keep your eye on his meter to know when it’s coming or should be. Also know his best long range option is either a teleport into divekick, which without the threat of crossup should be an easy to anticipate block, or surge slide, which mashing a crouching jab will stuff.

At close range is where you have to be on your BEST guard, and where upping your game is necessary, as at this range all his moves, blocked or hit build much better meter and he can add real offensive pressure and make you guess which way he’s really coming from. This is where remaining calm is absolutely necessary, as panicking will cause you to fumble at this point and cost you more at this range than any other.

Pizza cutter may be strong, but it’s hardly worth getting mad over. It’s beaten out by good grounded anti air normals and specials like most aerial moves can be. Air-to-air confrontations though are where it’s very difficult to beat, not impossible, but difficult. If he’s using it as a jump in, just be ready with your anti-air as always. If he’s using it as a crossup, it’s a little more difficult to beat, and blocking is just a better idea, especially if he’s doing so after scoring a hard knockdown.

Air to air, divekick is MUCH more easily beaten, as Cinder’s aerial trailblazer at his max jump height stuffs dive kick badly, so aerial control characters can take down dive kick and make them think twice about spamming it. The hit box is on his lower body, and aerial control characters can really break dive kick tactics for him. The possible exception is Shadow Divekick, as it has slightly higher priority and a bigger attack box.

Hope that helps some, I know this is getting to be a big wall of text, so I’m going to cut off here. There’s still more I could add, but I’ll leave that for anyone who just wants to ask.

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Any tips for the people that in fact are too slow? Like I said I can block it just fine when I know it’s coming, but when I am playing somebody who I have never played before and aren’t used to their habits or patterns…my reactions just aren’t good enough to react to his slide or cross up kicks. Would playing Shago’s more and more possibly help with this?

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Depends in the character. For the dive kick and you know it is coming but can’t react to which side,you can do an auto-corrrect dp. I learned this from @STORM179 You can do Down back,down forward,down back,down forward punch and it will Dp no matter which side it is on. Now the surge slide,he can’t do much without meter and normal slide is unsafe on block.

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I would congradulate you on that vid, but honestly, that Sadira clearly didn’t know what they were doing. I don’t even think they knew how to block. :stuck_out_tongue:

In terms of Shadow Jago. The magic to this match is blocking. Blocking is Shago’s worst enemy. Unless he has a good amount of Surge, he is incredibly unsafe. When you add the Pizza Cutter nerf, he is a LOT more managable.

In many ways, he’s a lot like Sadira. Sadira is able to do what she can by being unpredictable. (Thank you double jump). Like Sadira, his frame traps are limited. Sadira can create frame traps once she has instinct. I’m not really sure of Shagos, if he has any real frame traps at all. I’ve never fought a Shago who used them at least.

In short, I agree with what so many have also said, while Shago can be annoying, he is readily beatable.

Learning to properly block just takes muscle memory and knowledge of another character’s capabilities. There is also the reality that you aren’t going to block everything.

There’s very little that Shago can frame trap with in terms of specials, just because he’s so negative on everything. He probably has some decent options off his normals though - his buttons are relatively good. He also has some snazzy tick throw setups off his step kick command normal.

Might be a display lag issue on top of the online (online delay is ~3 frames I believe). Even when you know it’s coming it can be tough to block.

I’m about 98% sure that Shago’s divekick isn’t actually an overhead, so really, you can get by with just blocking low. I don’t stand block against Shago unless he’s shown that he’s willing to overhead axe kick me repeatedly in neutral.

If Shago gets to block after a slide, then you were late on the punish. He can throw tech on his light slide though, which is why you shouldn’t be punishing his slides with throws in the first place. Jab punish on slide is guaranteed for the entire cast I believe, as light slide is -5 on block.

If you just flat out cannot react to Shago’s nonsense, then you can just take to the air whenever you see him teleport. You’ll probably get hit, but Shago won’t really get anything off of it either. If you can’t block him, then just get hit in such a way that he can’t combo you. Eventually, when he does something that you can block, punish him for it. You’ll probably be able to make up the damage differential relatively quickly with most of the cast.

Simple fact is that at a certain level you’re just guessing against Shago, and counting on out-damaging him when you manage to guess right. Pick a side, make your peace with it, and then play the combo game if you have to or punish the blocked special. You can’t reliably react to a lot of stuff in this game - just pick a side and keep your game going as best you can. You don’t need to be right a whole lot to beat Shago - truth be told, he’s the one who has to guess right the most times in almost any MU.

You can also just pick Hisako - then you don’t have to guess at all :smirk::thumbsup:

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One word on fighting Shago. Conditioning.
Block his specials, (learn by replaying them in practice mode), or have someone play some sets with you.

Once you have the blockin down, just block. All his specials are tricky, but extremely unsafe. One you’ve conditioned the player that his specials aren’t as efficient, then you can play the footsie game.

Seriously, Ive played a few thousand games as Shago and I’m pretty familiar with him, and the his bane is a patient player who can block.
Good luck, dude.

[quote=“STORM179, post:79, topic:9190, full:true”]
I’m about 98% sure that Shago’s divekick isn’t actually an overhead, so really, you can get by with just blocking low. I don’t stand block against Shago unless he’s shown that he’s willing to overhead axe kick me repeatedly in neutral. [/quote]

You can be 100% sure it isn’t overhead. I think it’s a mid-hit, or possibly a weird, low-crushing high, but it doesn’t hit overhead. Crouch block for days unless you see him jump or do the overhead HK.

I had thought it was overhead for the longest time (even after playing a couple hundred matches with him because it always seemed to be) but when I tested it and his specials in lab a couple of weeks back to refresh my memory for fighting against him, I was astounded to find it was stopped by crouch block.