I don’t want to get into this too much, but will say a few quick things:
It’s disingenuous to just say “Fulgore has a 19f overhead that’s safe, Wulf has 18f that is unsafe, this is unfair” because it’s not the full package. Wulf also has Overpower, perhaps the best space control normal in the game (and it’s a normal, not a special like Blade Dash, so it can be special canceled), and Wulf’s overhead/low mixup comes from way farther out than Fulgore. He also covers space in a way that is more effective than Fulgore at some ranges (fast crossup dash + air dive kick for positioning). Maybe you think Wulf still needs unreactable and/or safe overheads because this isn’t enough… okay. But you have to talk about the toolsets as a whole, not just isolate one move, compare it to another kinda-similar-but-not-really move from another character, and say “these don’t line up”.
Ultradavid is allowed to criticize KI as much as he wants (as is everyone). The difference is that he is doing it respectfully (no threats/insults against players or developers), nor is he doing it hoping to stir up some great revolution. He’s just a guy talking on twitter about things he likes and things he doesn’t like. To the person earlier in the thread that says David hasn’t ever said anything nice about KI, that’s not true at all. He has talked about things he’s liked in the game in numerous past tweets and during his streams/youtube commentaries. I think it’s cool he likes the game even a little bit, because in the past (ie, before the PC release and before he played it), he’s been a critic of the breaker system and I thought it would always block his enjoyment of the game. So if he’s able to enjoy parts of the game and get into it a bit, great! Trying to weaponize his tweets to power some movement about how “the game needs to change” is unfair to the community, and to be honest, also unfair to Ultradavid.
well this has exploded over a simple tweet. from what i gather, hes just criticizing gameplay off certain characters he probably feels are detrimental to the enjoyment of the game and its overall health. thats it, big deal guys lol.
hes probably speaking in regards to get players and retain players. insane mechanics are a tough thing to endure when learning a game, especially when you switch from a game where you are consistently able to body people. then, you switch to KI and now you’re back at stage 1. its tough man, but a fun game makes it easier. if he enjoys KI awesome, good for him who cares. if he doesnt, who cares, do you enjoy KI? have a nice day folks
Again, you’re making stuff up. I never said “NO” to these things. I have said these mechanics need slight adjustment to alter their risk/reward ratio. But never once did I say “no” to them, as if to suggest they should be removed from the game.
Seriously, is it impossible for you people to have a discussion without slinging ad-hominem?
Also, I never used the word “unfair,” so why the hell did you put that in quotes?
Anyway, you missed a whole boat load of strength on the Fulgore side. The most obvious being his projectile-teleport → overhead game. That’s way better than any high-low threat Wulf has.
Then how about you offer some ideas for how you think the risk/reward could be better on these mechanics?
The forums are for expressing your ideas so that IG/MS can hear them and maybe accommodate. You haven’t really been doing that, moreso expressing opinions without giving us a reason to support them.
If your intention (as the OP) when making this thread was to start a discussion about high-level/experienced players’ opinions regarding KI and specific characters/movesets, it’s not offtopic.
Besides, I believe both your position and the general discussion of the thread would be improved by more specific details and elaboration on your part. Many specific points others have made or questions they have asked have gone relatively unanswered or ignored.
It’s not really, though, so long as they can be expressed within the context of David’s tweets… so maybe…?
It’s not really ad hominem to say using someone else’s opinion out of context to elevate the gravity of your own is disingenuous. If that IS what you were doing, that is indeed disingenuous, and that’s on you to live with as an individual. You’ve said a few times that that ISN’T what you were doing, so EVERYONE LETS KEEP IT IMPERSONAL PLEASE!
But really, @llPaulBll, join in the conversation! I get that you’re digging this whole mysterious facilitator thing, but I think we’d all benefit from your invested participation! Really, share your thoughts in detail, the hows and the whys, and engage the community in some deeper discourse! It’s practically guaranteed to yield more worthy conversation than the mess we started with here, and more in line with all of our mutual interest. We need less reasons to try to help people understand the value of rational discourse, and more discussion on the state of the game and it’s mechanics.
EVERYONE REMEMBER ITS OKAY TO THINK AND FEEL AND HAVE OPINIONS - but understand that the conversation shouldn’t end with our feelings. Those are the catalyst TO the conversation! It’s okay to hear people out and maybe your opinion will adjust with more data, may you’ll adjust someone’s opinion with your own information, but we need to be SHARING INFORMATION, not just barking at each other. We’ve got the grittiest system mechanics on block, let’s get in there!
@llPaulBll I really enjoyed that rant you had when you were taking the S2 survey, because you explained your problems and came up with a few suggestions. I actually agreed with most of the stuff you said. So I’d be happy to see to you make a thread on the forums like that.
The more we know about how a player feels, the better we can accommodate them.
You feel bad that he’s sharing his thoughts on a public forum to 35k+ followers, and that a few people decided to have a discussion about it in a small gaming forum?
Why are people trying to victimize him? I’m so confused.
Thanks for derailing the thread even further.
You guys make it really hard to be productive here. You never focus on the topic at hand. I’m starting to see now why everyone avoids this place. I guess I had to experience it first hand.
And for the umpteenth data point, what topic was this supposed to be? You posted tweets from a well-known fighting game community figure that equate to “short, vague opinions on a game”. The tweets don’t even seem to be negative or positive, just there to reflect his own condensed opinions about what he likes, thinks and questions.
You claim to want to foster discussion yet jump down the throats of people who question what that discussion is supposed to be. Someone had opinions on the game that to an unbiased observer look like… opinions on a game. Nothing inflammatory. Nothing offensive. Nothing overly negative or positive. Just a guy saying, “I like this. I don’t know about this. This seems a bit over the top. And this all seems polarizing.”
Please correlate the two, perhaps in another thread in the suggestions and feedback section. Not everyone is in tune with how the competitive side is suggesting on certain things. Or, rather, if you say these have been mentioned here, or elsewhere, culminate them to a concrete location there so it can be heard more in-depth.
My initial impression was we should discuss the tweets. The tweets didn’t feature anything really worth discussing. I don’t have twitter but I’ll use an example that fits me. If I saw Max uploaded a short video of just him talking, no gameplay, and he briefly mentioned this much information about GG Xrd or something, I would think “that’s interesting, he played GG Xrd more” and leave it at that. The amount of info here isn’t enough to make me really give too much extra thought or acknowledgement.
