Ultra Breakers!

Game Suggestions & Feedback
61

My mind is made up based on the evidence you are supplying to try to convince me - looks like a lot of other people feel the same.

Your reasons for including the feature aren’t changing, and like I said, appear to boil down to “I think it’s cool” rather than “here’s what this can add, and here’s why you would WANT to see it in KI.” And until your evidence supports the latter, I (and other people) aren’t likely to change how we feel about it.

The point of a discussion like this is that people of differing opinions can converse, and maybe find common ground or understanding. But it doesn’t sound like that’s what you’re looking for, it seems you want people who will just agree with what you’re asking for, regardless of the evidence against it.

62

Ok last post directed to you…

Yes I think that this has the potential to be a “cool” feature, I also think it would make double ultras more risky and keep players vested in the game even though “technacally” the round is over.

The whole point of the breaker system was to keep the games 1 to 1 interactivity, rather just just getting stuck in a combo with no choice but to sit through it. This is just more or less an extension of that idea. If you want to be fancy or punish someone for teabagging you durring a game and do a double or tripple ultra, fine, just know there is a RISK you take when you do it. Same as there being a RISK when trying to do a long combo.

On top of that I even added a “counter ultra” system to negate the risk. So if you don’t like it fine. You made your opionion clear. It doesn’t matter if I answer your question or concern, even if it makes perfect sense and addresses your concern, you will still dislike the idea. So no point in disscussing this topic with you.

63

The fact your life bar is depleted one second, and then during a double ultra it’s not after a breaker. If you come back and win from that, however unlikely, you stole victory.

That’s why “Phoenix” moves undergo heavy balance and risk. What you’re proposing is a NO RISK, all reward move. There is no risk in you attempting this move, because you’ve already been defeated, so if you pull it off, you get to come back into the game, and if not, you’ve not lost anything more for at least trying. Meanwhile, they guy in the ultra is ready to go into his second. He’s already earned victory. Technically, he should have no risk at this point and should freely celebrate with his combos as he sees fit, but instead, he now has an incredible his risk on an already assured victory. The only way you could even POSSIBLY make this fair, is something like if it’s a best 2 out of 3, and you attempt this and fail, you automatically lose match 2 and your opponent wins, and this mechanic can never be attempted on match 3, should it be 1-1.

TJ’s mechanic is fair because you are trading off on using your instinct, a very valuable resource, and saving it to gain back a little bit of health and speed to go a little further. You could have used it to enhance your normals and linkers, and maybe have saved yourself a lot of trouble, but choose to use it for his second chance. Even still, it’s still a high risk as you are in near danger of being ultra’d. It’s fair because of all the risks you take in getting the second chance, and it’s also non disruptive to gameplay flow.

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64

Ok reading that was a little difficult…but let me TRY and explain why its not a steal.

It would in my mind be considered an EARNED win or COMEBACK win, due to the fact you would only be able to break ultras ONLY after you trigger a SECOND Ultra.

The only way you would be able to break the ultra would be after you activate the second ultra and choose to do linkers, the linkers are what are breakable, nothing in the ultra sequence is breakable.

And since the ammount of health you would get back would be able to depleted chip jab damage, I would argue that it would be a well earned comeback victory. Not a steal. Especially if you decide to do a double ultra, you took the risk, and if you risk it, you risk to lose.

65

*shrug * So long as it came with significant caveats, I actually think it could be a fun way to punish an attempted double or triple ultra. You want to gloat, might as well make it interesting :slight_smile:

I’d actually go for them in some matches just for the opportunity to beat the opponent again after they broke my second ultra :smiling_imp:

66

Heyyyyy some one actually gets it…its all about fun. It’s risk and reward, and certainly there could be some caveats. After all this is a suggestion, and not something im saying

“has to be in the game next patch, or drop everything and work on this only, forget characters and ultimates, this is number one priority.”

Its a suggestion to discuss and nothing is final. Something to think about for the future, find pro’s and con’s and see if it could work later on.

Hat’s off to you for comming in with an open mind and not bull rushing in with negativity.

67

Except you’ve decided to shut out everyone finding cons and only want to hear people agree with you. The whole point of a discussion is that both sides voice their opinions. Instead you’re telling people that don’t like the idea to leave the thread and that you’re going to ignore them.

68

I want to hear cons, I want to discuss cons to find solutions.

But

“No this won’t work”

“This is stupid”

“This is unfair”

Those arn’t cons or critisism, its just negativity.

If I get a valid con, and reply with a solution that makes sense, just due to reputation on here people will twist words or repeat the same problem in different wording just to get a rise.

Also if you come at me with a WALL of text with 20 different “cons” it’s hard to touch down on every thing.

If you have an issue or suggestion, maybe put some space between them rather than dropping a wall of txt.

Example

“Using KI1’s stun state revive as reference”

I specifically said “It would be a throw back to KI1 but revisioned for how KI plays now”

obviously there is no stun state, But there are similarities.

Your health was done when you were in stun state it KI1, you mashed buttons to get a tiny chance for a comeback.

Your health now is done when an ultra is prefomed in KI2000, just now instead of mashing buttons for a tiny bit of health it would be in the form of a ultra breaker…

69

Again. The only way I can see this working is if the breaker is triggered by using all meter and instinct. Then both characters dance and the winner is still the winner. Now the question remains,how do you break something once your healthbar is gone? You can’t.

70

Cons:
-It takes resources, which are now limited enough to not give us many other extras more requested, and it’s a very situational and uncommon feature that once you know it exist, you can evade it forever. If any other massive or more requested feature is attended first, maybe this whould be so in the bottom that we never see it

-By default, ultra breakers, as far as you tell, are designed with only one objective: give the posibility to punish a stylish double/triple ultra. So you suggest creating a feature that negates other feature of the game, which is odd at least.

71

I apreciate your zeal to the dance off…but let me put it like this…

Was stagger and flip outs, in the begining of KI?

No? They were added right?

Samething would be applied here, it would need to be added, IE coded in. It would be a new mechanic that would have to be added… does it have to be added asap? No.

But just because something is not in the game now, does not mean it cant be added later, other wise, we can forget about ulimates, new character tweaks, and might as well say this game is complete, and nothing else will be added ever.

72

-The resources issue is complicated, I’ll give you that, but if that was the case why has it taken so long for ultimates to show up? If they EVER show up, which I would say at least 95% of the community wants them.

-Also like I said, I am not demanding or suggesting that this has to be shot up to #1 on the priority list, I put this here now so in the future if discussed, tweaked, and becomes more viable IN THE FUTURE of KI it could possibly be a thing.

To your second con…

-Ultra Breakers are a way to either punish people for doing double and tripple ultras, and also to give A SLIGHT chance for a come back. Similar to a person preforming long combos, there is a risk, but there is also a counter.

-Secondly I also propose ULTRA COUNTERS which allows fighters to counter Ultra Breaks, and to go even in further, the same lock out rules will apply if trying to ultra break so if you guess wrong ur still getting ultra’d.

Does this make sense? Am I dissmising your con’s? Just offering some clarification and solutions.

73

There’s no risk to what you are proposing, just all reward.

I don’t think it’s any of us with the closed mind here. We’re explaining why this doesn’t sound like a good idea. No one is taking it off the table completely, it just sounds like you haven’t thought this one completely through.

This is a valid argument, and one you should hear out, given it’s followed by reasonable criticism and suggestion as to why, which most of us have provided.

Searching this thread, I haven’t seen anyone say this. Seriously, I’ve used the find word command, and you are literally the only one who has said this.

That’s your perspective, but I would add that it’s a poor way to look at the situation. You basically at this point only want to hear out the yes men in the audience and have no regard for those who disagree. We have brought valid concerns and criticisms, but you seem to think everyone is trying to attack the idea or is too close minded to see your point of view. Not everyone is going to agree with everyone, it’s human nature.[quote=“KillerSwift7, post:68, topic:4719”]
If I get a valid con, and reply with a solution that makes sense, just due to reputation on here people will twist words or repeat the same problem in different wording just to get a rise.

Also if you come at me with a WALL of text with 20 different “cons” it’s hard to touch down on every thing.
[/quote]
Wall of text aside, for all the pros you’ve brought up, the cons are adding up to be far greater. Also, you have a bad habit of repeating yourself in the same manner you’ve accused others of doing.

So, if I need to space things out and make it short and plain:

  1. Fighting game fundamental: If the health bar hits 0, you’re done. This is what fighting games are practically based on. You’re suggesting a mechanic that breaks this golden rule.

  2. IG is trying to balance the game with meaningful new systems and mechanics that influence how the game is played. This mechanic would not affect how the game is played, just how it’s celebrated after the fact you’ve won.

  3. Just because it’s in the old games, doesn’t mean it was a great idea. Some of the old stuff in the first KI games weren’t very well liked from what I understand, this very mechanic being one of them.

  4. Old KI had stun states that brought things like this into a state of (semi-)balance in the game. These are no longer present, and their absence makes working in something like this incredibly difficult.

  5. There would be no point to flashy ultras ever again, and would really take away the fun to be had in the post game.

  6. No matter the level of competition, it isn’t a problem for one group of player, it’s a problem for everyone.

  7. It’s a further delay of match flow.

  8. Ultras are there to be flashly and fun, and it’s your chance to go unhindered and unopposed. You had all match to combo break and win. When you lose, accept it and let them do their ultras/whatever.

  9. Any idea that requires 3 or 4 extra conditions, requirements, and rules to be adding seems to be adding more complexity than the idea is worth. If you have to add Ultra Counters and other stuff to make this fair, you’re working too hard to fit this piece into a jigsaw puzzle it doesn’t fit in.

  10. When you’re life bar is gone, YOU’VE LOST. No mechanic in the world is justified in allowing you to overturn this decision. It’s like saying the Broncos lost the superbowl because Cam Newton played with a shoe untied the whole game and made every play since fail.

  11. It will cheese people off into thinking the game is rigged and you can’t win. That rage will ruin this game’s reputation and any chance for it to grow.

  12. It is stealing the win.

  13. Phoenix moves have a system of balance to make them fair. This move you propose is a no risk, all reward scenario. You assume no risk if you fail, and have everything to gain if you succeed. It has no balance to it.

There, a wall of reasons, nicely spaced out, concise.

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74

Wall of text aside, for all the pros you’ve brought up, the cons are adding up to be far greater. Also, you have a bad habit of repeating yourself in the same manner you’ve accused others of doing.

So, if I need to space things out and make it short and plain:

  1. Fighting game fundamental: If the health bar hits 0, you’re done. This is what fighting games are practically based on. You’re suggesting a mechanic that breaks this golden rule.

  2. IG is trying to balance the game with meaningful new systems and mechanics that influence how the game is played. This mechanic would not affect how the game is played, just how it’s celebrated after the fact you’ve won.

  3. Just because it’s in the old games, doesn’t mean it was a great idea. Some of the old stuff in the first KI games weren’t very well liked from what I understand, this very mechanic being one of them.

  4. Old KI had stun states that brought things like this into a state of (semi-)balance in the game. These are no longer present, and their absence makes working in something like this incredibly difficult.

  5. There would be no point to flashy ultras ever again, and would really take away the fun to be had in the post game.

  6. No matter the level of competition, it isn’t a problem for one group of player, it’s a problem for everyone.

  7. It’s a further delay of match flow.

  8. Ultras are there to be flashly and fun, and it’s your chance to go unhindered and unopposed. You had all match to combo break and win. When you lose, accept it and let them do their ultras/whatever.

  9. Any idea that requires 3 or 4 extra conditions, requirements, and rules to be adding seems to be adding more complexity than the idea is worth. If you have to add Ultra Counters and other stuff to make this fair, you’re working too hard to fit this piece into a jigsaw puzzle it doesn’t fit in.

  10. When you’re life bar is gone, YOU’VE LOST. No mechanic in the world is justified in allowing you to overturn this decision. It’s like saying the Broncos lost the superbowl because Cam Newton played with a shoe untied the whole game and made every play since fail.

  11. It will cheese people off into thinking the game is rigged and you can’t win. That rage will ruin this game’s reputation and any chance for it to grow.

  12. It is stealing the win.

  13. Phoenix moves have a system of balance to make them fair. This move you propose is a no risk, all reward scenario. You assume no risk if you fail, and have everything to gain if you succeed. It has no balance to it.

There, a wall of reasons, nicely spaced out, concise.
[/quote]

And this is why im not going to respond, not matter what answer I give you it will be an endless cycle. So this is just trolling sorry you had to type all that, but you will not get a serious response from me from that post.

Maybe if you summed it up like @Dayv0 I would answer. But im not gonna entertain your trolling.

75

I gave you a legitmate argument, listed with the same reasons everyone here has given you over the course of the discussion, but you wanted them concise and clear. You got what you wanted, and you’re calling ME the troll. I didn’t resort to name calling or insults, I presented an argument. At this point, you’re looking for reasons to ignore rational criticism. And I’m done.

4 Likes
76

I went over more than half of the the “cons” you listed already im not going to do it again.

“the stealing wins”

“the stun state from KI1”

“How to prevent never ending matches”

just to name a few. I’m glad you are done your trolling is getting tiresome. Let someone with real questions have a go. Good day.

77

Sorry to burst your bubble but ultra breakers are a
Ready a thing. Go to the training room and set regenerating health and break all. The opponent will break the ultra because the life bar doesn’t dissappear. However in a real match, it doesn’t dissappear. If you do add ultra breakers,Tj’s Instinct last breath won’t be as special anyway. Plus it is no risk all reward as some have mentioned. What do you lose of you fail? Nothing as you were going to lose if you didn’t do it anyway. You can revive if you succeed. Combo breakers for example. It is risk reward. Fail? Lockout and opponent can do huge damage. Win? Combo is ended. Same with counter breakers. Risk and reward. Where is the risk for the ultra breaker?[quote=“KillerSwift7, post:1, topic:4719, full:true”]
Was just playing a game when i had this idea. since it’s so easy to do ultras now especially if using combo assist…and with the speculation that there might be ultimates added later on. What if you were allowed to break Ultras when you’re in danger. I’m not saying after the ultra has been activated but let’s say you’re about to hit danger in health and you know your opponents going to go directly to ultra and it allows you to break it. And instead of it just being a regular break maybe he could do a small amount of damage to the opponent. Even better if your opponent is trying to be flashy and do double or triple Ultras you could break them when they are doing button combinations after they start a new Ultra. So much salt so so much salt.

If they add ultimates then that would be even better because you would have to guess between an ultra or an ultimate.

It would kind of be a throwback to the original KI’s when you were in danger and you can mash the buttons to gets a little sliver of health back and we would have a new announcement for the announcer to go ham on.

It would also be interesting because it would keep you engaged in the game after an ultra is done because you get a chance to interrupt the ender.

So Lets go over the idea, feel free to add any concerns, questions, or additions and improvments.

Ultras/Ultimates CAN NOT be broken during the initial Ultra sequence.

Ultras would be able to be broken ONLY if there is a double ultra is activated and button combos have to be manualy pressed to lead to the second ultra activation.

In other words, when you start an ultra and the sequence starts and you can set your controller down, there is no way to break that, it is only when you attempt double ultras and have to actually press buttons manually keep the combo going.

When it comes to health regeneration, You only get a small ammount of health back and will still be in danger, almost to a point where just chip damage from a jab will kill you.

T.J. Would not be effected, the same rules would apply to him.

Stage ultras would not be able to be broken because it starts a sequence. You can’t do a double stage ultra so obviously it would not be able to be broken.

Yes. There IN MY IDEA of how this would work the would also be “ULTRA COUNTERS!” That would work the same as if you do a counter breaker in the middle of a round. The anouncer would just be more hype!

Ending an ultra would obviously make you safe because as stated above you can only break an ultra if you are manually pressing buttons to continue onto a second or third ultra.
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78

And troll thread confirmed. Pack it up everyone, only way to win is to let the thread die.

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Time to pack up. Good bye,

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