The Replay and Analysis Thread


#1028

Confusion is nice, but full confirm into combo is nicer is think? The purpose of most “confusion/frustration” setups is to condition someone into a suboptimal response, but those should be (I think anyway) smaller, more compact sequences. You want the entire sequence to be short so that you maximize the punishment while minimizing the time the opponent has to respond with something you won’t like (like a DP).

A good example is something like Hologram pestering you with Thunder’s LK buttons on wakeup. It’s something like cr.LK->LK->LK->cmd grab. It’s a relatively fast sequence, punishes jumping, and is really effective for the tick (after eating the third button you’ll tend to finally just block). On the occasions where he mixes it up and goes for ankle slicer to end it instead, there’s a confirm into combo waiting at the end of it if you get hit.

Confusion/frustration setups are fine. Just want to make sure there’s some payoff at the end of it. Be building toward some specific end - frustration just for frustration’s sake isn’t terribly useful against an opponent who doesn’t tilt easily.


#1029

In nearly every instance, i would agree with you. But my conventional wisdom, adapting on the fly, reads and most all of my other game sense was not amounting to much through the set. Certainly not momentum or even wins. So i went with something off the wall.

To this point, still haven’t watched the set replay, but i appreciate the advice given and questions asked about them from everybody. I initially wanted to watch the replays and add my thoughts, but i think i’ll just watch them and apply what’s been stated. Work on that for next time.


#1030

Here’s another FT10 set, this time with ThrashHeavy and his Eagle:

As always, feedback from anyone is appreciated. But in particular @FallibleJoker14, I want to get your perspective on how to properly manage the neutral in this fight. I feel like I’m really at a loss about how I’m supposed to chase this character. I can get close-ish to him, but it’s nigh impossible to keep him from just jumping out again and starting the game all over.

What makes you nervous in the neutral game? What things or options do you find difficult to deal with when you’re trying to zone or play away from the opponent?


#1031

I’ll be sure to look at this when I have time. Thanks for mentioning me.


#1032

@STORM179 when will you post the set to the forums man?


#1033

He posted it to twitter a while back, I thought it was also posted here but maybe not!


#1034

Tbh i wanted to be the one to post this video :joy: i saw it a week ago but i remembered that he didn’t post it to the forums.

Thank you for your help though.


#1035

-shrug- You could’ve posted it. I honestly just forgot.


#1036

:roll_eyes: suuuuure i could have.


#1037

Two FT10’s with @ItzTymeToDul. These are very different sets than you’re probably used to seeing - a lot of the matches are quite a bit slower paced than the norm for KI.

First FT10:

Second FT10:

For some reason, I felt like you would like these fights @Infilament.


#1038

So I watched the set @STORM179. I also watched our set from earlier. I’m not good at giving advice so bear with me.

  1. Stay calm. This seems like a weird piece of advice to give but it can work wonders against Eagle. I think two times you did a shadow rekka from full screen away, I’m guessing that was from frustration. Looking for a desperate way to get in may get you lucky, but it will easily get you a punish if done wrong.

  2. Use your dash- When full screen, your options are limited. Teleport can be easily punished if charging a shot. Wall bounce can be AA (you can make it difficult by changing trajectory using Air Tiger Knee). Dash is the hardest to counter of these. Only low shot and maybe 3 and 4 spread can stop it. You can also make the opponent nervous of the dash by using shadow slash (idk the name of the projectile invincible move) and you can mix it up with grab. If he jumps over your slash while charging, he has no options and it will lead to your turn.

  3. Don’t let Eagle prep- Midscreen and in pressure there are tiny spots of pressure that can be exploited for a punish. Thrash likes to use bird screech to prep rain arrows, instead of standing there and letting him setup, use your S. Slash. He’lol be nervous to set up close. Also, I saw some empty spots in his pressure where you could have easily S. Slide out of. Look for tendencies in when they use rain shot and if you think you have a chance, take it. Don’t hesitate. It’s better to take your chance back then to get back in his suffocating mixups.

  4. Challange, Challenge, Challenge!- Make him nervous of you dashing. Be smart with your Air to Air options. Make him scared of mid screen and push him to corner. Don’t be to greedy and advance on him too close in the corner, cause that can just lead into a double jump to escape. This is most important part of the MU, keep Eagle at a disadvantage. Stay at a decent range where you can punish any escape attempts. (Maybe with Cr.HP). If you can find a way to keep Eagle incapacitated, you’ve won the match.

Also, against Thrash, be careful with your resets. In desperate times, he likes to use bird bomb. Either anticipate this and block, or look for resets that can either save you from the blast or stuff it out.

I’m no Hisako player so idk how much this advice is useful but if you need any help with specific setups or situations let me know. I’ll try to be of help.


#1039

Influence resets ignore bird crash, and I suspect anti-jumpout resets hit meaty enough to do the same (not sure on that though, and wouldn’t be surprised to be wrong). Thanks for the advice - I’ll try to manage my dash-ins a bit better in the future, and maybe think about take some swipes with j.HP’s to try and swat Wagle from the air sometimes.


#1040

nobody likes this guy anyway


#1041

Yeah, Wagle is kind of an ■■■■■■■. :unamused:


#1042

Wagle has feelings too you know :disappointed:


#1043

Who is Wagle?


#1044

Eagle but with a typo


#1045

Ha! I thought some ■■■■ REALLY must have hacked @STORM179 off. I was like dang this guy really has to be an ■■■ to hack off Storm as he’s the most level headed guy I know. :smiley:


#1046

I know this is a random question, but I didn’t want to revive an old thread or start a new one just to get some feedback on Aganos.

Does anyone know how to manual with Aganos? It’s odd, I can manual with everyone in the cast, mind you, with the exception of the characters I don’t care for. Though, I could never figure out the timing for Aganos’s heavy or medium manuals. His lights aren’t too bad, but as for the two other strengths, it seems odd. Any tips?

@MnTLetalis @Dayv0


#1047

After the animation for the linker finishes, wait a bit longer, go make yourself a sandwich, then come back and press the manual. In fact, his manual timing on linkers is so late, and the combo break window for the linker is so long, that combo breakers can very often end up counter hitting the startup of the manual. Seriously, it’s near impossible to get timing locked out between a Pulverize linker and a manual.

However, not all of this openers/linkers allow the same leeway. The opener version of Pulverize is pretty manual restrictive, like you might only get a light for medium/heavy (I haven’t played Aganos in a long time, so I don’t quite remember). It’s usually better to just go straight into a linker. At the same time, all strengths of opener Natural Disaster give you any strength of manual, with an enormous manual window.