The Replay and Analysis Thread


#1008

I did Evo 2015 Top 8 (Season 2) a few days ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUKb-jlkwas


#1009

Not specifically that one, but I meant in general. Having frame traps that leave you safe like that are a good way to catch someone pushing buttons and stop offense.

I personally like that one because I can buffer it into a lot of things.


#1010

FT10 between myself and @SneerfulWater57. I thought this might be a good set to critique in terms of things Sneerful can do to manage the fight a bit better


#1011

To be honest, I feel like the set went the way it did more over the little things. A lot of times people think that in order to be successful they have to get some completely new tech or shift their entire paradigm, but in truth I think a lot of one’s success is built into the little things, the small optimizations that add up bit by bit. My thoughts on what you can do a bit differently to improve:

  • Counter break. This doesn’t apply to every match with every player, but against someone like me you simply must stop me from breaking. I broke about 90% your heavies - don’t let players get away with breaking everything under the sun.
  • Confirm lockouts into the kill. In the first game I ate a bad lockout that should have killed me, but didn’t because you ended early even though you’d done a medium linker after heavy AD (I’d locked out on the AD). I got up and took your lifebar immediately after, and didn’t lose my own until I’d taken about 45% off your next bar. That’s a lot of free damage that might have cost you the game.
  • You can cancel katas into shadow dragon kick after a shadow counter. Don’t let me (or anyone else) shadow counter your katas when you have meter.
  • If you’re going to fake a meaty, don’t go for an option after that loses to the same thing you were trying to bait in the first place.
  • Hisako is plus after blocked shadow ORZ. You probably shouldn’t be pressing buttons there.
  • Don’t just sit within range of Hisako’s buttons waiting. You spent a lot of the set just down+backing, a lot of times even when you were in range for your own buttons and pressure. Don’t let your opponent have the initiative in that manner.
  • Tighten up those meaties. I got away with way more wake-up influences then I should have.
  • At some point you have to try and avoid getting reset. Jumping isn’t a great option a lot of the time, but backdashing will clear most of the simpler resets from much of the cast, including Hisako. I got a lot of free damage out of being able to reset whenever I wanted.
  • If you’re going to frame trap, be ready for the confirm. At ~15min, you hit me with a frame trap button 3 times in a row (I was mashing out influences trying to punish a throw attempt) before finally confirming into your combo. Want to make each of those touches count.
  • Pay attention to how your opponent is getting hit. In the scenario above, could you see from your end why I was getting hit? You know that I know that you’re plus after medium dragon dance, so why did I keep getting tagged there? Use that knowledge to recognize what I’m afraid of as a player (in this case, the throw), and use it plan your next move. If a player is afraid to be thrown, then what should your next pressure option be? Sequence your offense in this manner and exploit the tendencies you see in front of you.
  • Again, good job recognizing the fake meaty setup when you had instinct. Most players will just eat that repeatedly if it’s the first time they’re encountering it.

Hope that helps!


#1012

I’ll come back to this once i rewatch the set. Haven’t yet so i don’t have everything i was doing in my memory, but i do recall this part.

If this is the sequence i’m thinking of, my intention was to frustrate you. Dunno if you remember, but i used a similar sequence when i played your Jago. I think i took you from being cornered myself to nearly cornering you. The point of that sequence for me is to frustrate or confuse a player while i’m in Kim’s comfort zone, but yes, i forego the damage i can get from multiple touches. I know well enough i’m not going to confuse you, and it is not normally a thing i will do to a Hisako just because each touch is precious. But i figured on just trying it just to see what you’d do.


#1013

I don’t know if I’m wrong but at ~6:30 after Wafer blocked a low hit that was cancelled into a S.Rekka, could Wafer shadow counter the second hit to negate the parry cancel? I was wondering why he let it fly


#1014

It’s WaTer actually. :stuck_out_tongue:


#1015

Lol ik. :yum: I just did that mistake of calling him that a while ago and just stuck with it.


#1016

It is rather catchy. :stuck_out_tongue:


#1017

Yes, he could (and should!) have shadowed countered there.

And just for the record, Hisako cannot counter cancel out of any of her shadow moves. My counter there was after the move was over, because I read shadow dragon kick. Which is actually bad on me, since if I were looking for that I may as well just block it out and then react to the freeze… :sweat_smile:


#1018

Simply put, just screwed it up. Both in forgetting to shadow counter and attacking into plus frames.

Shadow countering in the Hisako/Kim MU is a mind game. Yes, Hisako can counter cancel on reaction to a screen freeze if she has enough wrath. Kim, conversely can Dragon cancel a shadow counter even before it actually hits if she has a Dragon. And I’m perfectly fine with burning one Dragon and one bar for that opening, especially at the cost of half of Hisako’s wrath.

If at any point I shadow countered Storm with a Dragon, I was very likely trying to time a Dragon cancel to punish his likely counter cancel.


#1019

Can’t you get guaranteed punishes on stuff then? Like, let’s say you shadow counter the last hit of any normal rekka. Can’t you dash cancel and grab (for example) fast enough to catch Hisako parrying and also just catch her normal recovery which is really slow?

Even if some of the faster recovering moves are mind games, it’s cool that Kim has a way to deal with this. I think the main problem though is that outside instinct it’s probably hard for her to generate dragons in this fight? I also kind of wonder how hard it is for Kim’s footsies to work against Hisako’s big buttons. I feel like there’s a range at the tip of Hisako’s stand HP that is pretty hard for Kim to deal with, but I haven’t watched the matches.


#1020

I guess no one wants to see my replays :frowning: lol


#1021

Just post them, I’m sure people will gradually chime in.


#1022

I know, Im just being dramatic :slight_smile: Hell it takes so much time to record the replays and then post not sure if its worth it.


#1023

Depends how much you value input. Personally, the analysis helped me greatly.


#1024

Its a great idea to take time and post here! At least for me. It’s an amazing tool and I wish more people were able to use it. Also thanks to everyone who participates in giving feedback, it’s appreciated by everyone!


#1025

Yo… where all the Jago players at, I’m itchin’ here! :sweat_smile:


#1026

I’ll see if I can record some matches and post them here too.


#1027

It can work as a punish, yes.

http://xboxclips.com/SneerfulWater57/635ca418-2379-40a1-add3-60ebc0e6ed83/embed

Thing is, the timing is tricky. You can’t buffer the dragon cancel, so in order to time it right, you’re looking for that moment right after the screen releases but before it strikes to hit the cancel. Right around a 6f gap, i believe. Once you have that though, yes, dash cancel > grab/LP/LK/dragon grasp/others all work as a punish. At least as far as the notification says. When i’ve played other Hisako’s and managed to hit it, haven’t seen them retaliate. I’m still not good enough with it to hit it on demand, though.

Getting dragons in the MU is difficult, yes. Kim’s st HP doesn’t touch Hisako’s st HP in terms of range. And because it’s difficult at times to get in, I don’t value a dragon (plus the other small benefits) high enough to perform a dragon ender and reset that situation against a strong Hisako. I honestly prefer using it either at the end of round point or if i have them cornered so that the backwards stagger the opponent goes through is negated. This leaves Kim within overhead/H dragon dance range right after. Parrying feels higher risk in the MU than others, too.

@FallofSeraphs76 Post whatever you’d like.

And yeah, the wafer thing started a long time ago.