The Replay and Analysis Thread


#986

I’m dying to see this. I’ve never seen him play. In excited.


#987

FT10 between myself and @FallibleJoker14. Was a great set :slight_smile:

Not too familiar with the MU, so tried a variety of tactics to deal with certain things, some of which worked and some of which didn’t. Overall is definitely not a fun fight once you get cornered, so in the future think I’ll have to try and play the spacing game a bit better to avoid those areas of the screen. Either way Joker has gotten a ton better since the last time we played, and I know there’s a bunch more I need to figure out in the MU.

Critique away! :+1:t5:


#988

Seriously @STORM179 I don’t see how you could stand all of this flagrant disrespect from @FallibleJoker14. I can’t count how many times he gave you… wait for it… THE BIRD! :stuck_out_tongue:

Honestly this was one sick set. :smiley:


#989

Critique for myself - use shadow ORZ more wisely to blow through zoning. Won’t punish in many situations (Eagle recovers quite fast), but when eagle doesn’t have meter will at least let me get in close with plus frames.


#990

Let me show you something…

Lol jk that actually made me laugh. Surprised I haven’t actually heard that joke be made till now.

I haven’t watched it all yet, but in hindsight, I think I gave your Hisako too much respect (not that it’s bad or anything) but I think I backed off waaay to many times when I could just pressure. I thought you would guess correctly and blow through my setup and I would be caught in the blender again… gotta stop my mental blocks.

Also, I don’t think you ever used cross up Tiger knee on me. You always used the front facing one. I think you caught on to my fear of the grab and capitalized on it. Another example of giving a move too much respect.

I was too scared of counter breakers. I think I let go way too much damage.

And finally…those ■■■■ delayed ADs…they always get me man. I see the first attack and know the strength but I would lockout due to the delay. Geez how many times did I lockout.

I also found out in the middle of the match that the arrow autocorrects Eagle when you use descent. I didn’t have to jump over you and hit you to counter. Something that is extremely useful.

I really need to learn this MU more. Ggs as always. You did really well (obviously)


#991

I actually agree with you giving Hisako too much range. Were you pretty dominate while you had her pressured. Every time I saw you go to the opposite side of the screen, I was like… why he’d do that! :smiley:

I say the same thing to when I play against people with Sadira and they run to the opposite side of the screen, thus giving me breathing room.


#992

Yea…funny thing is it’s not how I usually play. It was because it was Storm I was facing. I felt that even being close to him was a threat and I wanted to avoid any mistakes as possible. Ironically, it hurt me rather then helped. :b


#993

I get that way when I face Storm as well. He is legend. :smiley:


#994

Hm. I didn’t dislike some of the running away you did, though in other situations it was maybe unwarranted. Eagle’s zoning is good, even against Hisako, and I lost a lot of life having to chase you over the course of the set. That damage is more or less free, and free damage is always good.

Never give a player any more respect than what they’ve earned. If you have me in the corner on knockdown there’s basically no reason to back off ever, but midscreen I think the calculus can change a bit. Make no mistake - I am dangerous if I’m next to you, and Eagle’s midscreen options aren’t as oppressive as the nonsense he gets to set up in the corners. So taking the space isn’t always a bad decision.

I don’t use the cross up TK very much against non-DP characters. You have to hold the mixup either way, so it makes no sense to give you extra time to see it and block.

But yes, you got caught jumping or backdashing away a lot. Even some of your comebacks were due to me simply missing the TK, as opposed to your backdash or jump being the correct decision. You’ll need to watch that in the future - can’t count on poor execution from your opponent to get you out of pressure. Sometimes you’re really better off just blocking, even against a command grab character.

Nah, I’m just a dude with currently middling execution playing video games. Run your game against me the same way you always would; don’t give me respect in-game that I haven’t earned.


#995

Here are 2 videos of me playing sgt josell. when i asked him, he said that "he knew the basics but understand there is a bit of a lack of knowledge on his end. Other I choked super duper hard b/c I lack a solid gameplan with Shinko, he adapted to beat my gimmicks and I really got mental guard broken

A knowledge thing i failed to capitalize on was failing to M awakened soul as a punish to H trailblazer and afterburners.

also i had 0 AA and crappy footsies becauses frustration i guess

Any other nuggets of advice would be helpful



#996

Per @TheNinjaOstrich request, i’m posting a fairly recent set @STORM179 and i played. Starts at 51:37 if it doesn’t start right up in the video.

I don’t know about it on his end, but from mine, the set ran with some spikes but nothing terribly serious.

My own notes:

My wake up timing was not there at all. Storm was free to challenge my timing with a command grab on wakeup and beat me with a high percentage of success.

I know that my swaying back and forth at game/round start after a few games came to be a tell for Storm to dash up command grab. Once i realized it, i kept doing it, trying to bait it and jab the dash. Eventually, i just came to the conclusion i wasn’t going to.

I kept missing the opportunity for parries in the middle of his rekkas. Maybe once did he stop them to throw out a sweep or something, but otherwise, he either let them rock or i forgot to check his meter before he threw out a shadow command grab at the end.

The one credit i’d give myself was that i was able to recognize pretty regularly where and what he wanted to break and the times i went for counter breaker was pretty high.

Around the 7th or 8th game, there was an instance where i didn’t touch him on my green bar. My controller came unplugged.

All in all, i just did a ton of blocking with my face, made tons of execution errors and disallowed nothing that my opponent wanted to do. I wasn’t and i’m not particularly happy with my play through that set of games, but i also know that’s to be expected of playing Storm. It’s not the first time we’ve played sets and i know of his oppressive play and keen game sense, which even in a set where he made execution errors, kept him ahead. I figure by about game 4 he had a grasp of what i was about in this MU.

He kept picking the same color as me and it threw me off, too.

EDIT: As always, feel free to butcher the set.


#997

General rule of thumb for me when I ever get a chance to play Storm is Me + Storm = Dead Me. :stuck_out_tongue:


#998

Ok. Managed to watch the entire set. Sorry if I repeat things you have stated to have noticed yourself. These are things that I noticed and wanted to speak upon.

At 51:01, Storm did a Rekka, and did decent afterwards. Either of those interactions could have been punished. Try and stop Hisako from escaping with stuff like that. She shouldn’t be able to cancel into decent like that without being punished, or throw a Rekka out there like that.

52:54, I feel like another button should have been pushed. You had the right idea, but I think a longer reaching normal would have worked the best. You may have been able to catch Storm and start a Combo going.

54:25, I liked the frame trap you had there. Use those occasionally in the match to stop Hisako from pushing buttons, and to stop her from getting away with things she really shouldn’t. Don’t give her space or respect. Disrespect her and her wake up. Make it hard for her to gain momentum.

55:52. This happens with a lot of Hisako players but I see it from Storm a lot. He likes to catch you pushing buttons after a successful parry. Use this to your advantage to play a mind game with him. If he does that, go for a throw for an Oki setup. Or, punish his recovery frames for a full Combo. He will have to make a guess what you will do if you condition him that you have options after a parry, other than a button press.

58:07. I like the attempt at the punish. However, I feel this is very risky without the proper timing. Unless it’s to kill, I’d say a parry is worth it as it gives you space and a free dragon.

  • I would say parry a bit more and stop his options. Rekkas especially. On the 3rd hit of Rekka, he has many options he could go into that you may not be able to get out of. Condition him that you will parry certain things, and he will have to make a guess next time that situation arises. Remember you can Parry the second hit of Rekkas as well, so use that to your advantage. But if he knows that, he can delay or not continue the Rekka, making yourself open.

1:00:52. Try not to jump straight up in neutral if a Hisako is close to you. Since Kim’s jump is so floaty, she can punish you fairly easy almost every time. A good example is at 1:11:18. You kept jumping in, and lost a significant amount of Health on AA’s alone. For the most part, try to stay grounded unless you have a read on a command grab or you are attempting to get out of an Oki situation. But even then, Hisako can stop you, so it’s up to you to read patterns and act accordingly.

A fun set to watch! A big general thing I saw was don’t give Hisako any respect. I think this was a huge one that could have helped a lot. There was times where you sat and tried to look for something or wait for him to do something, only for you to get caught. Be aggressive towards a Hisako, but be mindful of command grabs and counter. Don’t give her the space she needs to start her offense.

Storm is very good at reading. You’ll have to mix it up several times in a match to keep him on his toes. There was some flowchart stuff I saw coming from you that he capitalized on a lot. Be wary.

As for that same color tech, I would suggest a color or costume that’s super wacky to throw him off :joy:

If you have any questions, feel free to ask!


#999

I think i was more surprised in the moment that he did descent that it jarred me a little bit. But regardless, a missed opportunity is a missed opportunity.

Looking back at this part of the video again, this is a point where i felt the replay got whacked out and i stopped recording shortly after because that’s not at all how i remember that situation playing out.

I don’t think that i had woken up with my reversal at all up to that point in the set and i got blasted with a M or H TK ORZ. I think the idea was ok, but more so than that, the situation dictated it. I had no instinct available, in danger, 2 bars and a couple of dragons. Next hits wins. If i look at it from the 3rd person, good odds would say an attempt at something risky was coming. And i got hit with a setup to beat the option i chose because my opponent (i feel) read the situation deeper than i did. I’m more questioning myself that, even during the set, i knew specific TK ORZ’s could beat my reversal. Why did i not at least attempt to cancel out after the screen freeze? I dunno if the cancel would have flung me into the ORZ but should’ve known, at the very least, at the freeze that option had been beaten.

Really as far as questions, I can’t think of many. I’ve gathered a good bit was poor choices to avoid or deny the mixups and that my options to do things were scouted out or covered by setup options. I recorded a long stretch of matches i’ve been meaning to in that video to go over. Mostly against Storm and his Hisako and Jago. The Jago matches went better, same end result, but it is what it is. Also a Eagle that was tricky (actually, you might find it worth watching for some notes @FallibleJoker14 ) and a Maya. At some point, i plan to have a sandwich, rewatch and break them down for what went well and what went poorly.


#1000

I actually did end up watching those matches. I think i commented on your video as well. Btw those wwere some good matches you had against Storm. Very entertaining.

I’ve played against that Eagle before. Not even as a mirror. I wass using my bad Cinder. All i knew was that he LOVED bird crash. Like it wasn’t even used at good times. Like at wakeup. He didn’t do any big setups on me. Just simple side switches.

The only thing i found interesting was a flashy juggle off a H wingspan followup and a grab conversion. They don’t lead to anything or either is too much of a risk or it waste too many resources.

I remember thinking that he was just a random move eagle, kinda like a shago spamming mixup moves. He loved top get in with wingpan because he wasted too many arrows. You probably could have challenged it. He was pretty obvious when he wanted to get in. I’ll have to watch again however. Don’t want to assume something I’m not one hundred percent sure.

Nice matches either way and thx for the tag.


#1001

The cancel would have autocorrected. I run into this with Storm a lot. With Hisako, waking up with a SDK can actually be a bad thing because Sako can just Counter it if she has the read, or stuff it like what happened here. So sometimes blocking it out or parrying is the better option even if you are one hit away from a loss.

I’m thinking you could have just forward dashed too, but I’m not sure.

@STORM179, Confirmation? I think if it was a wake up dash, it could have worked?


#1002

I wanna test this later but I thought the way the game treated the cancel dash was to always track to the opponent. If they crossed me up, I’d think it’s tracking backwards.


#1003

Yeah. I only use light TK-ORZ in that MU, and if it’s not meaty (which it usually isn’t, since I want to catch backdashes and beat reversals), then you can just dash under it.

EDIT: I haven’t time skipped to the part you’re talking about, but if it was a heavy, then the hitbox is big and hits behind Sako and you were hosed. If it was in fact light, then you would’ve been free to dragon cancel.


#1006

Id like to post some sets here. Had a good one against a geat Shinsako and another vs a Tusk. Getting it recorded is the hardest part. Hoping to get one up by the weekend.
Spankyoubutt’s SHinksako? vs my Omen
of
MrDevil187’s Tusk? vs my Kilgore


#1007

Something i did start wondering about when i started watching these replays again. I’m curious why this particular frame trap. If i can say my thinking with this, i’m not really partial to the cl. st. MK after M dragon dance (or most any plus on block frames) primarily for two reasons. One is that if i space it wrong on block, i’ll get normal st. MK which is -2 unless im buffering. The second one is that i honestly prefer to use it on wake up. It’s plus on block, links into itself on counter-hit, and has pretty minimal pushback which makes it a fairly go-to option for me if/when i corner an opponent as well.

I’m just asking because i’m not unopposed to adjusting to using that based off advice to do so. But i wanted to state my reasons why not. I’m more likely to use cr. LK or cr. MK (for it’s range, not to trap) after M dragon dance.

EDIT: 1K posts of sharing knowledge. Nice.