The Replay and Analysis Thread

The Dojo
966

I find it interesting that you decide to use descent when your arms were burning. I believe Hotshot could have punished those (my guess is lag) but the point is what would you get closer to cinder when your at a disadvantage. You were sometimes far away and just decided to use it. Just something i want to point out.

Also, i feel like you need to challenge more of his juggles. There are times where you can break (like double trail blazers) but you didn’t, yet you still tried to break random normals.

Good job with those delayed ADs. He either was to hesitant to break or too break happy.

Also i noticed you preferred to do hard knock down/exchange ender over wall splat in the corner. Why is that exactly?

967

I dunno… I saw several times that you had a positive hit confirm and he even flicked and it was like he totally ignored your hits. It seems that the connection wasn’t in your favor.

968

I bring a FT5 set between I and @FallibleJoker14 .

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969

You can break it when it’s done as a linker (ie, not as a raw opener). Happens a decent amount whenever he explodes a pyre bomb on you or wants to juggle after fireflash or something.

It’s more of a player thing. When Cinder burns you out, the three most likely options for him to try are trailblazer, low inferno, and jump forward pyre bomb. Descent avoids all of these options and generally returns you to a good enough position that you can choose to either sweep challenge or simply jump back and run away. If Cinder tries to press (and he wants to press, b/c he’s burned you out and wants to cash out), then descent is virtually unpunishable here.

There were a lot of descents that I got away with this set that were probably due to lag, but the post-burnout ones are mostly not it. I sat still just enough after burnout that he had to guess on whether or not he wanted to go in or try and wait for the descent, and that’s more or less where you want to be in this fight.

The only trailblazer that I can break on reaction is the medium one. I’m not good at breaking either the up or down ones (I’m aware which they are, but tend to lock out on them), so I mostly leave them alone. My main goal for the break game is to break frequently and accurately; if I’m not confident I can hit a window I’ll tend to leave it alone. I almost never break his “random” normals - whenever you see it in this set is mostly after the game basically ignored me trying to break a choke point manual, so I mashed something else out in frustration/desperation.

As a general rule I don’t wall splat DP characters. I only wall splat for reset purposes, and there is no reset opportunity when the opponent can just mash out of anything I want to do. I’d rather just take the extra damage for the HKD and set up my standard oki, which includes a few DP-safe options.

Yeah, the connection was pretty ■■■■■■■■■ I missed a bunch of hit confirms over it, along with a legion of teched throws and broken cashout manuals that didn’t register. On the other hand, I got away with a criminal number of descent cancels, probably because of it. C’est la vie.

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970

Second half of the extended set I ran with @TDBH0TSH0T. This is really just the second half of a single extended set, so keep that in mind regarding some of the decision-making on both sides. Same cross-platform situation, so still recommend using the timebar to skip lobby downtime, and all the previous notes still apply.

New notes:

  • the ■■■■■■ lockout combo I did at about 2:30 was an execution error. Didn’t see the lockout in time to confirm into AD, and then didn’t want the second heavy linker but guess I held the button too long. Shadow was my attempt to salvage the situation somehow. :joy:
  • lost my TK execution somwhere in the latter half of the set. Think I started drumming my fingers too fast :confused:
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971

Interesting set.

My takeaway. This connection thing you got going on sucks :joy:.

Analysis:

-it seemed like in the first set you blocked a lot of downward/heavy trailblazer without checking them with counter (can’t you counter in between a gap of medium TB into downward TB?). It seemed you had lack of care due to lag so i would suggest shadow counter. I think it’d help not to play the dp or no dp game. Especially since in the early matches hotshot got away with dp after the follow up.

-Going to flip your advice in a way. I like your breaking of heavy air recapture. You abused hotshot for not being willing to counter break until MUCH LATER in the game. Conversely, it seemed like you were only keen on breaking there. There are other “choke points” in cinders juggle game to break. The trailblazer follow ups are a great one to keep in mind because they have the same strength as the first trailblazer. It help to keep him on his toes and is easy to identify with match up familiarity.

-i like how you baited his wake up in a sequence in one match. He woke up 3 times and you punished him for all the attempts. Twas beautiful.

972

Oh man…was our connection that bad? :anguished: I don’t think i could distinguish that Eagle play as mine.

Well in the beginning of the set really. Got better over time

2 Likes
973

You can counter in between the gap, but this loses to single trailblazer->throw, which is the option I’m more used to seeing these days. I generally won’t counter after blocking a mid trailblazer unless you do it a lot - I didn’t have a good read on when Hotshot would stop and throw, so I just decided to block it out and take the throw if that’s what happened.

I should shadow counter heavy trailblazer, but am spectacularly bad at it with Hisako (since I’m usually looking to counter it instead, and my hand position is off). It’s a MU gap for me tbh, and something I need to improve on.

I very rarely break air trailblazers, because in general I’m bad at it and also because most Cinder’s don’t give you the second half of the attack anyway. I actually have a list of about 5 juggle manuals that I can reaction break, but most of those are hard to hit if you aren’t offline or don’t have a great connection, so I left them alone for the most part this set.

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974

Did an analysis of the Storm vs Delta set (in addition to some 3rd Strike analysis) a day or two ago. The KI set analysis is maybe not my best work (was pretty tired) but hopefully it’s still useful.

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975

Aw. Sad I missed this :slightly_frowning_face:

976

Yeah, it’s tough for our schedules to line up because of the huge time zone difference, but hopefully the archive is still helpful

977

Hello Forum Wizards, lend me your wisdom!

I have a special treat for you guys today, a rematch between the bird and the tiger. It’s…

FallibleJoker14 vs @oTigerSpirit Part 2!

We have both been training well and improved a lot since last time. Hope y’all enjoy it! Please, any anaylsis is greatly appreciated

Tiger has some requests,

So yea, if you anything to add just say so. He played much better then last time, especially with his use of instinct and corner pressure. Much better from last time.

For me, I know I messed up on some things:

My timing for arrow combos weren’t perfect. Also I wasn’t strong in my resets as they were usually countered by a DP or S.Wind Kick

I have some misinputs in there, purely my fault.

Yea…I forgot to shadow counter a lot of Fwd HKs…wasn’t focusing on that.

My combos were also gettin a bit too predictable, didn’t challenge or change it as much as I should.

So please anaylize away! If you haven’t seen our last match, I recommend that you do first and see our growth from last.

Tagging people who I would really appreciate feedback from:

@Infilament @STORM179 @ItzTymeToDul

It would be nice if you not only review our present set, but also our growth from the last set and how we improved or worsened in aspects of our play.

Thanks in advance!

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978

I don’t know if anyone saw, but Killer Instinct Archive uploaded a match between Thompson and Hologram. Great stuff.

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979

I watched. Very good fights between them. Hologram’s Thunder is really scary, and Thompson’s Jago is one of my favorites. Really joyful stuff.

I’ll watch these now :grinning:

@Edit: Great set! @FallibleJoker14’s Eagle getting stronger and stronger after every set I watch :laughing: I’ll give an advice to @oTigerSpirit. I didn’t know you had an Omen! What I’ll say probably others Omen players (also best than me) like @FallofSeraphs76 and @ItzTymeToDul can say is: when you take a life bar of your opponent I think it’s best to use Rashakuken ender to gain more meter, also use Demonic Spiral (Omen’s Around the World) to lock opponents meter for some seconds. Perhaps you were afraid to drop your combos ('cause I do it sometimes lol), but it’s worth to add this to your arsenal. More shadow meter and also deny your opponent’s resources. But overall I liked your Omen (and your Jago too!), I’ll let more experienced players talk more about your gamestyle. I can’t see some things they can with their experiences.

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980

Great advice.

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981

Kinda weird replying to myself, but I’ll chime in a bit since you asked how to deal with Eagle’s zoning.

@oTigerSpirit

His zoning can be as creative as his close range pressure. Each Eagle I’ve seen has a different take on zoning altogether. But I feel the strongest zoners have a good use of bird attacks, bird retrievals, spread shots, and charge arrows.

Against a majority (which is not really many) Eagles I’ve seen on ranked, they like to use the spread shot a lot and rarely use charged arrows. Against these types of opponents, it’s best to block and slowly move forward, with giving blocking more priority. Many don’t keep track that they have a limited amount of arrows.

I’m going to give you tips against my type of zoning, since I’ve seen good zoning that are different from mine. I’m going to be talking as well from a Jago MU.

When against an Eagle, you’re gonna get hit by arrows. The whole point is to minimize the damage taken. From full screen, you’re best bet is to walk forward and block. Jumping when I am charging an arrow leaves you open for an arrow to the face. Whenever I walk forward, be careful of a bird peck, as I like to use that a lot so that I can step away. It’s better to get hit by an arrow then a bird since the bird gives me time to back away. If you want to challenge me, don’t charge your fireballs, as my bird and charged arrows bypass it completely and it leaves you open for scatter shot.

In the match, at times you walked backwards, That’s a BIG no against Eagle. You’re giving him room to breath and you’re pushing yourself in the corner where excels he as well. Make him feel pressured to do something. Shadow fireball can be a good idea, but spread shot and charged arrows bypass that a will probably keep you in place.

In mid range, I’m hesitant with using arrows. I like to use either bird screech, low shot, or shadow spread shot as an anti air. Be careful of jumping here. If you jump in any way that is not over my head and I have shadow, you’re gonna get a hit by a damaging shadow move. You got hit by this many times in the set and the damage really stacks up over time. Even without shadow, jumping can get you caught in my screech which can lead to setup. It is not recommended to use shadow wind kick, unless I’m being to careless with charge arrows. You only have a split second to punish me if I’m charging arrows from most ranges. On reaction I can jump out of the way. If you’re pretty close and I’m charging, its a good idea to challenge and S. Wind Kick however it’s a huge gamble. Keep that in mind.

Keep me away from arrows, always keep an eye on my arrow number and where my arrows are at., and if I have shadow for retrieval. Try to manipulate me so that I can’t reach them. Use fireballs to your advantage there and build meter. Or you can try to quickly get in but that leaves me to get more arrows. Oh, and keep calm. It’s challenging I know, but doing something unsafe is a HUGE gamble. Be wary of that.

Also, against M wingspan (the one where I kick and bounce off) keep blocking, i can shot arrows after the move and you usually got hit by it. I think you can punish me with a S windkick if you block the arrow and execute fast enough. You might have to lab that.

It’s a tough battle I’m not gonna lie and sorry for the long essay, but I’m just trying to give you help since I play him. Take this advice only as a base and adjust to your liking, there are probably better ways to deal with it.

Hope you get better in the MU. It’s not an easy one for Jago

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982

Here are some casual matches that I ran in Japan with some of the Americans who were in town. Have an extended set with GnarlyFeats’ Orchid as well that I’ll post once I get the match footage from a friend :+1:t5:

vs ShinTristan:

vs. ShinPaulo:

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983

Extended casual set (FT20) with GnarlyFeats at Evo Japan. This is the last of the sets I’ve got easy access to from Japan - thanks to ShinTristan, ShinPaulo, and Gnarly for the fun games! :slight_smile:

Part 1:

Part 2:

@PCKPharrohYami These matches are a good example of what I was talking about in the chat the other day. A lot of what Orchid does is pretty reactable offline, so things like raw overhead and finishing off mixup rekkas can be pretty dangerous. Basically any time you see me counter a really deep overhead (i.e. it’s right about to hit me), that’s done entirely on reaction. It’s not an 100% success rate or anything, but you can definitely see the exploitable gaps that you don’t really get to take advantage of online.

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984

Did you find any footage of any Gemako matches (against you or anyone else)?

985

Not yet I’m afraid. Will definitely let everyone know if I’m able to.