When Capcom does it, everyone hates it. When Nintendo does it, everyone loves it. Either way, is a s****y thing to do.
Well Capcom doesn’have t Kamiya and Mikami any more so that sort of thing is to be expected.
Meanwhile Nintendo still got Sexy Sakurai and Dashing Miyamoto… and that dude… What’s his name ? You know… he was a level design for Galaxy 2 and the Director of 3D World… he’s cool too. Its the fun kind of Unpredictability.
I already hate Nintendo, so this is just another reason for me to hate them. I hat any company or franchise that seams to coast by on reputation and reputation alone. Disney, Nintendo, sometimes Capcom, you know the type.
Indeed I do… all to well… but I don’t have an issue with them… if I get burned once by them I just add them to “The List” and not fall into the same trap next time… Shinji Mikami actually falls into this Category… sort of… He’s so inconsistent.
Wait, how did Nintendo get roped into this conversation?
The Big N has for years been widely acknowledged to make some questionable larger business decisions (friend codes vs a real online network, overall hostility to fan-sustained communities like Smash, poor treatment of 3rd parties, etc etc), but where their reputation is strong it’s pretty deservedly so. SFV is a mess of a game, with sometimes wildly inconsistent quality and performance. Nintendo’s reputation for innovation and polish for their core IP’s is pretty well earned. I mean, they’ve literally launched multiple brand new genres with both hardware and software.
Thats why we let’em get away with Murder…
Now if EA could do the same thing then they will be sorted… wouldn’t bank on it though.
I guess I just don’t agree that Nintendo gets away with murder though. They get heat from fans when they do something heavy handed like trying to enforce end user agreement laws regarding Smash streams, they fail when their attempts at innovation don’t match up with consumer wants or interests (Virtua Boy, Wii U, Zelda Four Swords), and they wind up in last place when they go too hard on controlling 3rd parties. I think the market and the fans for Nintendo are quite responsive to what Nintendo actually does, as opposed to them just skating by on past goodwill. To the extent that they do skate, it’s that someone might (maybe) buy their system to play the newest Mario or Zelda when it comes out. For anyone who knows the game industry and what companies actually make money on, that’s really not much at all.
Nintendo gets heat when they do right and flak (or low sales) when they do wrong. I think Sony skates more than they do to be completely honest.
I’ve said this before about Disney i’m Pretty sure. I just wait for the day for Nintendo to start sucking. Every game they release floppingvand their stock plummeting. The idea that there can be a “perfect company” that can do no wrong and always releases quality products, is damaging to the industry. Even if they can back it up to some extent. It’s Disney Magic. It means that their products get less scrutiny than their competitors, and everyone who tried to compete with them directly gets over-scrutinized to the point where the actual quality of both products is distorted away from reality. Which hurts the market for competitors. It’s why companies like Disney and Nintendo have such amazing reputations. If you look at the full range of their products and judge them equally, they both actually have a pretty normal good/average/bad ratio compared to other companies. But almost everyone always says “It’s a Disney movie. Of course it’s gonna be good!” and “It’s a Nintendo game. Of course it’s gonna be good”.
I grew up with Looney Tunes. I grew up with DC Comics. I grew up with Sonic the Hedgehog. I grew up with Star Trek. Take it from me. How these companies operate, how impossible they make it to compete, hurts the franchises that aren’t under their umbrella.
I distinctly remember Mario Sunshine getting hate because even though it was quite a bit superior to Mario 64 and any other 3D platformer at the time, it didn’t substantially reinvent the genre or anything. Majora’s Mask got similar flak when it was released because it ran on the OOT engine. Metroid Prime Hunters was critically acclaimed but sold poorly because ain’t nobody trying to play a FPS with a stylus on a tiny screen. All of like 1,000 people bought a Wii U, and people often called out Skyward Sword for forced motion controls and repetitiveness.
I guess my point is just that Nintendo has gotten smoke for bad calls, and sometimes even for stuff that was actually really good and people just thought wasn’t quite good enough. Mario 64 wasn’t the gold standard because Mario>Sonic - it was the gold standard because it was a ■■■■ good game and did things nothing else had ever done before. People love Mario Odyssey because it’s a fantastic game, people like Breath of the Wild because it’s incredibly open and inventive in a way LoZ hasn’t been before. The vast majority of the praise Nintendo’s first party titles get is earned, and sometimes they get blown up for stuff that isn’t even a factor for competitors…“Oh, you didn’t revolutionize gaming on this installment - 9.5 instead of 10, even if I can’t think of what I’d change about it!”
I grew up with the same stuff you did. Looney Tunes is beloved, and DC comics have more than their share of iconic stories and heroes. The original Sonic games are (deservedly) revered, and though I think people rag on him a bit too hard in many of his modern outings I can point to a whole list of bad Sonic titles that led to the loss of that goodwill. It’s not Nintendo’s fault that Sonic Team made a lot of bad calls about what people wanted out the universe. My whole family are Trekkies…that property’s issues haven’t had anything to do with Star Wars in a very, very long time. In my experience Star Trek fans are way worse to the new stuff than anyone else (DS9 is my favorite Trek, so I’ve heard a ton of flak from other Trek fans over all its perceived flaws that mostly boil down to “it’s not the Trek I grew up with”).
On the Disney front I actually tend to agree that the company is too big, and I don’t relish their acquisition of the X-Men and related franchises at all. Which isn’t to say that Sony hasn’t done a ■■■■■■ job with some of those properties (FF4 remake, X3) and mediocre at best with some others (X-Men Apocalypse, Amazing Spider-Man reboot). To be completely honest I think Disney will do a better job shepherding the X-Men and Spider-Man than the other guys, and I think the acclaim for the MCU has been as deserved as the dislike for much of the DCEU. But as you say, Disney’s current size is prohibitive in a very real sense in terms of market power. I don’t know that I think they get an automatic pass though…they’ve certainly had animated movies flop before, and the new take on Star Wars certainly has whole legions of detractors (and Solo performed quite poorly at the box office).
I went back and watched some old Bugs Bunny Cartoons and wow… my tiny child brain missed out on so many of the subtleties…
Yeah but… were there ? now I was a pretty ■■■■■■ gamer when I was 5 but even then the concept of a super speed 2D Platformer that punished you for running too fast was something that never sat right with me…
Granted I couldn’t beat Mario either so what did I know back then…
Tried playing Sonic Mania… still no change…
Uhm… what? Has Nintendo been directly responsible for someone’s death, or are you just being hyperbolic here?
Hyperbolic Obviously… I’d never forgibe Nintendo if they actually did something that bad.
Well, you complain about the difficulty of virtually every game you talk about on here, so…yeah
More importantly though, tons and tons of people never beat the original Mario, or Mario 2 or Mario 3 either. Even as a child who couldn’t beat the first or second one though, I loved and recognized all three games as amazingly fun and interesting. Getting to the shiny flag at the end isn’t always what’s most important. I beat both Sonic 1 and 2 as I recall, but beating them wasn’t the point - it was that the ride itself was awesome.
I’ve dedicated the past two months to playing all the games that I’m sure are going to bug me… I’m only half way through… still have to finish MGS V and Lightning Returns and a few others…
Uhm… you do realise the ride doesn’t last long or isn’t particularly enjoyable if it stops abruptly ? There are games I’ve been defeated by and walked away from without feeling like crappy but no pre-7th Gen Game is one of them…
Well I mean there is Pac-Man and Tetris but those games are designed with you eventually losing in mind… Sonic & Mario, However, are not… so its always awful being defeated by those games…
I’ll disagree that the DCEU’s hatred is deserved. I like those movies and wish that they didn’t get as much hate as they did. Being different from what your fan base wants isn’t a crime Mr. Pool.
As for Nintendo, I actually agree. When you stop and think about it, Nintendo does get called out on when they do something bad. I still don’t like them or any of their franchise though. Ok, that’s a half lie. I like the worlds of Metroid and Pokémon but the gameplay never grabbed me.
But just because a company CAN earn that kind of reputation doesn’t mean they SHOULD. We kind of let that happen with Capcom. And look what happened. They got complacent. And then we got SFV’s launch and MvCI (which I also love despite the hate). Then they fall and loose consumer market trust. I think a company needs to stay near the middle. The public needs to think “Ok. They’re usually a good but do occasionally put out a dud or two”. Then said duds don’t hurt them as much when they inevitably happen.
Nintendo’s biggest problem is that they release incredibly polished well designed games - every 5-10 years. Each franchise sees only a handful of releases. And they get plenty of flak for it.
But I guess just to pull it back to the big picture, worrying about company identity instead of evaluating the game/film/whatever on its own merits is a bad idea - whether you are a fan or a detractor for the company.
I dunno, Capcom is on a solid streak right now (SF5 aside) and their upcoming titles look just as promising as the previous ones. They’ve done a great job updating and reintroducing their franchises since RE7. They’ve earned the praise and positivity for now, and IMO it’s fine to enjoy the exciting expectations of the hype train as long as you don’t get too attached.
Though, I do see your point. People tend to prop certain companies up like gods and just set themselves up for bitterness and disappointment when they eventually run into a low period either because of shifts in leadership, being unable to keep their priorities and quality assurance healthy in experimental times and technology, or complacency after years of releasing hit after hit.
I honestly prefer this than have a game of the same franchise every other year that lacks said polish. And instead then focus their support on the game they released and add more stuff to it over the years through DLC seasons and such.
I’ve met people who demanded a new game every year, but also demanded that each game was the utmost polished and up-to-date in graphics, adding new gameplay elements to make them exciting etc… It’s easier to do with a lot of shooters and sports games, as they play mostly the same, but are just getting more and more polished for each game. But for most other game franchises and genres, having such demands is just unrealistic.
I think it’s easy to look at Nintendo and assume they’re complacent based on the fact that they have a stable of titles that come out on every system. You know you’re getting new Mario, new Zelda, new Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Smash Bros, etc.
Personally though, I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all. Sure, they also need to sprinkle in some good new franchises along with doing not just a good, but great job of iterating / refreshing their normal money makers, but I think they’ve done this pretty well so far this generation.
I think Microsoft could stand to take a page out of Nintendo’s book and expand their stable of dependable titles so they’re known for more than Halo, Gears and Forza. Those are great titles, no question. But I’ve a lot of people describing their fatigue with MS’ “holy trinity” because those have been their only real “big” release games for a while now.
I’d love for Killer Instinct, Fable, Crimson Skies, MechAssault, Lost Odyssey, Sunset Ovedrive (though that ship has sailed), Alan Wake (same) and maybe even a few more to join their big three and really give people high end, triple A stuff that they can rely upon across more genres. I’m hoping that’s the direction they’re headed with all the studio purchases they’ve made, but we’ll have to wait and see.
Either way, and I suppose this is more my point than anything else, but it’s very tempting to use the information we get from our own limited exposure to public opinion and run with ideas like “Nintendo always gets a free pass” or “Sony loyalists are like a cult” or “MS has no games” or whatever, but I try to remember that all three of these console manufacturers have ebbs and flows, gaming triumphs and games that underperform, controversies, bad PR moments, etc and no amount of hearing from a loyal fanbase about how great they are or how much your system sucks will change that.
No. Nintendo’s BIGGEST problem is that they don’t have enough supply for the demand from their fanbase. Or at least they pretend not too. Why I cannot buy an aging game for a reasonable price instead of hundreds or even thousands is an absurdity. Even worse is that relatively new games hardly ever see a sale. Even used copies still retail for the price of a new game that is not currently on the shelve… why Nintendo, why?
Need to talk about SFV though, since I’m in that thread… Ryu is still bland. Why Capcom, why?