I can tell you haven’t ACTUALLY encountered some of the situations you mentioned here, because i have dealt with them all myself.
Jumping HP puts you in enough blockstun that you CANT punish it. he still gets the option to jump out or continue a blockstring.
Because of jumping HP’s INCREDIBLE range, beating it in the air requires you to be touching him.
GOOD PLAYERS KNOW THIS, and will mash HP as soon as they leave the ground to beat you to the hit. If you are on the ground, they will delay the HP so that they can put you in enough blockstun to keep you from punishing, as stated above.
I understand that his moves are unsafe, but if you make ANY move of your own, he is almost guaranteed to hit you. His slide and divekick make jumping and projectiles useless. How are you supposed to suppress his options when he can hit you front high, front low, back high, or back low from ANY POSITION ON SCREEN?
Yes… I was able to use a standing LP to punish it. It’s not easy, but its doable. Also if you are blocking it, I would assume you should be able to Shadow Counter it. It’s a multi-hit attack.
I don’t think I have tried that…I usually go for a crouching poke. I will give this a try…thanks
the reason I say try Stan’s Shago shadow is the JHP into throw is one of his main set ups. I can not escape it or punish it unless i just block and tech the throw and use the back push of the tech to escape.
He practically does nothing but that set up mix in with a few of the other surge juggle set ups. Its a pretty damn hard fight when using Omen.
I would also like to mention that Keits said he was ready for season 3 as is, and that everyone else needed to be stronger to fight him. SO RIGHT NOW HE IS BROKEN. (His biggest nerfs and buffs were things that SHOULD have been in the game already. Like bug fixes and normalizing move-vs-move interactions.)
Honestly, I think complaints will be somewhat similar to what they are now. S.Jago has the exact same move set, and everyone else is almost the same, with the exception of the special move additions. I think the only characters he would really have a hard time fighting are Mya (which is the case now because of the daggers) and Spinal (with the instinct changes). If anything the normalized damage across the game brings everyone else down to S.Jago’s level, but now everyone can play the juggle game.
I said Shago was tuned with S3 in mind, and that everyone else was getting more powerful in Season 3 while Shago was not.
I actually do not believe Shago is the most powerful character in S2, despite being tuned for S3, though you could make an argument for Top 5 for sure.
Ok. When a character is broken,go on ranked and use that character. If you get 20 wins in a row,then you can complain all you want. Otherwise,you just learned how to beat that character.
Imo Shago is just one of those characters that completely destroys people that don’t know how to fight him. But people that do know how to fight him can exploit his weaknesses. He’s like Riptor’s tail flip or Maya’s mantis turned into a full character.
Being unsafe on literally EVERYTHING he does is a weakness - a major one in fact.
@MrxFlutterShy - you’re complaining that you have to make a hard read on anything Shago does, but the fact of the matter is that there’s a ton of characters in KI on whom you have to routinely make hard reads to fight against. Almost nothing Wulf does on oki is reactable. His slide and overhead are not reactable. Any time you pressure a DP character on wakeup without a safe jump, you are making a hard read that they will not DP you for your efforts. Any time you try to punish a blocked windkick, you are making a hard read that Jago will not go for the frame trap DP. Anytime you tech a throw, you are making a hard read that they are in fact moving to throw you, as opposed to simply walking up for a neutral jump bait. Fighters are made up of all sorts of hard reads, and Shago does not have exclusive access to a lot of the ones you mention.
The jumping HP “shenanigans” you’re talking about? Literally every character in the game has a variation on it, and characters with cross up heavies have basically the exact same options, except that most of their versions can’t be shadow countered. Jump-in heavy->jump-in heavy vs jump-in heavy->throw vs jump-in heavy->continued block string is something the entire cast can do…it is not particularly unique among the KI cast. His jump+HP has a large hitbox, yes, but it is not materially different on oki from Jago’s pizza cutter, and in neutral is substantially worse than that button.
Shago is strong and has a lot of good options, and yes, he can toss a goodly amount of unreactable nonsense at you during a fight. But he is not overpowered, and there are in fact a lot of ways to get around his shenanigans. To be honest, it sounds like you’re letting the MU get to you with this sense that “OMG, I have to guess right all these times or Shago will win!” But the fact of the matter is that Shago is guessing right alongside you, and the instant HE gets it wrong, he’s going to be sitting negative 8 in front of you for a full punish, with a high likelihood that he eats a heck of a lot more damage for being wrong than anything he’s managed to do to you thus far. So take his divekicks in the air, fail in blocking some of the overheads, and get caught trying to punish a surged DP. None of those things deal significant damage, and the moment you do get it right defensively, you can generally inflict more than enough damage to make up for it.
Yes the pizza cutter has good range. If he does it immediately in jump though you wait until it’s done and then you punish him. It is not an impossible to beat move, it just isn’t.
If the other player is confident enough that he knows what you are and aren’t going to do and he can start this move immediately upon jumping with confidence and it works, there is an explanation for that. He is beating you at the game.
[quote=“FallofSeraphs76, post:60, topic:4847”]
You can not punish on a blocked JHP…Shago can land and immediately throw you out of your “punish”…light poke, what ever you try.
[/quote] there are other jump hits that timed correctly have the same properties. Tech the throw. It’s not a unique or unusual situation to see people jump in then throw… In any case, are you certain you can’t punish a blocked HP with a true reversal like a DP?
EDIT: just went into practice and you can definitely hit this with a reversal. I will upload the video later if anyone needs proof, but it just means the move functions like other jump ins- which isn’t surprising.
Yes, in any situation where you get thrown, you could technically sneak in a DP or throw invincible reversal. Any throwable situation is neutral by definition, so if you’re ever grabbed, you could in theory have DP’d to beat it out.
Edit: except for wall splat/stagger states, where throws are techable, but no other action can be taken.
Omen doesnt have a DP and the only option I have against that set up is either LP orda shield and trade a hit via anti air…or tech the throw. thats it for Omen. Ive tried everything and I say this because I have fought Stans shadow 100X and he is really good at building his shadow…thats all he does really. And thats his main set up. With Omen…thats all I can do to beat his jumping shenanigans
** Now you can Shadow form through it…but that isnt always available especially at the start of the match when that is there first set up.
Im not complaining like the others…IM just sharing my story and situations to explain it is a very hard to beat move for OMEN
It’s all good man. But that’s not so much a Shago issue as an Omen issue. I’m guessing he has some issues with other good jump ins as well. How’s the damage on Orda shield? I don’t know if that’s a trade worth making.