Honestly, if his opponent wants him DQed for an accidental down motion that the ref doesn’t identify as teabagging, it would be a much worse case of bad sportsmanship.
I only support this if whenever someone does tea-bag a Low Tier God sound bite says "get that ■■■ BANNED"
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Exactly. It’s very much a non-issue. I think it’s silly thing visually, but I also get how the connotation and origin is aggressively hostile/sexual in nature. It’s not a hard thing to avoid doing. In real life I think the gesture of giving someone the middle finger is silly and meaningless. It’s just showing someone your finger. Why is that offensive? When I see someone do it, ti makes me chuckle, and think why should that finger upset me? but it comes with certain connotations and intent that really anger people more than you might think they have reason to, so I just take the L and try not to do it. It’s not hard, and not worth making a stink about just because I don’t think it should bother people as much as it does. I’ll give them the toe instead (check out the Seinfeld bit about this).
Also, I find it hard to believe that someone competing in this game at a high level lacks the manual dexterity or manual control to avoid rapidly moving their character up and down over/near their downed opponent after a match or in-between rounds. There seems to be concern that this is going to happen by accident or misinterpreted, but I don’t think that is realistically the case at all. This is just to curtail overly aggressive, obvious use of this one particular gesture. It’s another non-issue.
If not being able to make your character mimic/reference squatting and placing your genitals on an incapacitated opponent takes away your ability to mentally break-down your opponent, perhaps it’s time to adapt and be more creative in flustering your opponent, or up your actual game in general.
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I didn’t read, and am not going to read, this entire thread. If people are being disrespectful to Brandon or any other TO over this, they need to re-evaluate what they are doing. It’s not that serious. On the other hand though, neither is TBing or taunting. This is all a game.
But yeah, the fact that his as blown up as it has is just sad. I said, about 300 comments ago, that I didn’t want to get into it, and this thread…and the twitter comments…and the Eventhubs article, is all a testament as to why. This isn’t the first time this has flared up, nor will it be the last.
It isn’t about TOs, or bullying, it is about people not understanding the nature of competition. People being “scrubs”, and not understanding the concept of “playing to win”. It is what the FGC and many other communities deal with all the time due to the meshing of the casual crowd and the more hardcore scene.
From probably my favorite source on this subject:
“Imagine a majestic mountain nirvana of gaming. At its peak are fulfillment, “fun,” and even transcendence. Most people could care less about this mountain peak because they have other life issues that are more important to them, and other peaks to pursue. There are a few, though, who are not at this peak, but who would be very happy there. These are the people I’m talking to with this book. Some of them don’t need any help; they’re on the journey. Most, though, only believe they are on that journey but actually are not. They got stuck in a chasm at the mountain’s base, a land of scrubdom. Here they are imprisoned in their own mental constructs of made-up game rules. If they could only cross this chasm, they would discover either a very boring plateau (for a degenerate game) or the heavenly enchanted mountain peak (for a “deep” game). In the former case, crossing the chasm would teach them to find a different mountain with more fulfilling rewards. In the latter case, well, they’d just be happier. “Playing to win” is largely the process of shedding the mental constructs that trap players in the chasm who would be happier at the mountain peak.”
–Prologue — Sirlin.Net — Game Design
Sorry, but many of you guys are stuck in “scrubdom” Lol.
…And before anyone responds negatively to this, this isn’t a dig at anyone. It is all a mindset thing, and that is what the book/article is about. Why don’t you first take the time to read the link:
…(at least some of it) before you respond, and maybe a real discussion can come of it.
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Enter in this forum after months.
See this thread and developers complain about “not teabaggin” in tournament.
Sadly, leave.
And I gave my money to them.
It isn’t about TBing. That is the issue.
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Ok. I read the whole thing. Twice. Now I have questions. How far do you take the concept of “playing to win”? Do you follow them to a far away restaurant, then let the air out of the tires so they can’t make it back? Do you try and get them thrown out of the hotel and mess up their sleep so they don’t play well? Do you say some mean hateful things to upset them, and get the to lose focus? Do you let the air out of footballs to give you a better chance of winning a playoff game?
While I do like the idea of “playing to win” some people would take that statement way to far.
I guess I am just old school. A time when it was about one person being at their best trying to win against someone at their best. Not let’s see if this sex act bothers them so I can win.
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Yes please people this isn’t about tea-bagging. This is about creating an objectively unenforceable rule for largely arbitrary reasons. It’s objectively unenforceable, I can say I was testing my joystick inputs, I can say I was crouch blocking/ fuzzy guarding, you cannot objectively tell me that it’s not what I was doing even if I’m mid round on their face. The reasons are arbitrary because it’s a rule with the intent to limit disrespect, this is pretty dumb given the fact that there are a large number of other ways I can show disrespect to my opponent.
It’s not about tea-bagging it’s about the premise of the rule and the precedent it sets.
Whether or not you get offended over tea-bagging is a completely different discussion. Whether or not you believe there is a significant mental aspect to fighting games based on non combative in game mechanics is also another discussion.
Maybe you can lobby the developers of the next KI to freeze character positions between rounds so they can’t do it, but that will have a significant impact to the actual gameplay. One many people may not be for.
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You’ve got to be kidding me. I have been banned for a week and when I get back, I see a 300+ thread that took less than a day about t-bagging in KI world cup. Smh. My view is that t-baggins is equivalent to fireball spamming. Any argument against t-bagging can be applied to fireball “spamming” as well. I am curious if anyone can prove me wrong though.
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I’m not sure how that could be true. Throwing fireballs is actually a way to win the game…
@DoobyDude23 if t-bagging is generally viewed as hilarious, then you can’t say it’s part of the “psychological component of fighting games.” No one is suggesting that t-bagging is "tilting " your opponent because he’s laughing so hard he can’t pay attention. If you want to argue that it shouldn’t be banned because it’s inconsequential, you can. But if you are arguing that it shouldn’t don’t be banned for being antagonistic because it’s important to be able to antagonize your opponent as a skill set…
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Seriously, you just blew my mind. You should really just keep reading in to other chapters, as the book answers your follow up questions too.
"Sportsmanship
Some would interpret my attitude of winning by any means necessary to imply that I have no appreciation of sportsmanship. Quite the contrary, I have observed that the very best players are likely to be excellent sports. Part of sportsmanship is keeping calm when you lose. Playing to win involves viewing a loss as an opportunity to learn and improve. Getting hot-headed and yelling at an opponent or muttering under your breath that you lost to a “no-skilled scrub” does not accomplish that.
Being a good sport also involves winning politely and observing customs of etiquette before and after a match such as bowing, shaking hands, saying “good game,” or whatever is appropriate. There is always the tendency to gloat, but being polite and reserved is the way to positively influence other people."
–Sportsmanship — Sirlin.Net — Game Design
Boxers talk trash all the time in promos. NFL players yell at the opposing team before a play begins all the time. NBA players try you psyche out the other players before they take a shot on the regular. And Nascar drivers intentionally, sometime aggressively, drive to get that inside corner. Can these things lead to penalties or fines in game? Sure, there is always a line, but the competitive rule of thumb is that the field, the track, the court, is a war zone. Yes you should be sportsman like, just like how in actual war we have the geneva conventions, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t fight your hardest, and use what you can to win up to that line.
As soon as you take this outside of the game though, you are in violation, and are completely in the wrong.
How does this specifically translate to video games?
I am not saying fireballs is the same thing. I said “spamming”. T-bagging is spamming the crouch button right? Isn’t spamming fireballs spamming the fireball motion? If you know what you are doing, you can beat the fireball “spam”. If you know what you are doing, you can avoid being affected by t-bagging. You might argue one is a gameplay mechanic and another is not. Why isn’t t-bagging a gameplay mechanic? You spam fireballs to win. You t-bag to put the opponent on tilt. Both are allowed by the game. You might say t-bagging is disrespectful. Someone might say that fireball “spamming” is disrespectful and you should fight with your fists. What is the actual difference?
I noticed this section from that article is pretty much the argument I’ve been making:
Discrete
The thing to be banned must be able to be “completely defined.” Imagine that in a fighting game, repeating a certain sequence of five moves over and over is the best tactic in the game. Further suppose that doing so is “taboo” and that players want to ban it. There is no concrete definition of exactly what must be banned. Can players do three repetitions of the five moves? What about two reps? What about one? What about repeating the first four moves and omitting the fifth? Is that okay? The game becomes a test of who is willing to play as closely as possible to the “taboo tactic” without breaking the (arbitrary) letter of the law defining the tactic.
Or in a first-person shooter game, consider the notion of banning “camping” (sitting in one place for too long). No friendly agreement between the players is necessary for the ban, which at least means it’s enforceable. The server can monitor the positions of players, and it knows exactly who breaks the rule and can hand out penalties accordingly. The ban is enforceable, but the problem is being able to completely define camping. If camping is defined as staying within one zone for 3 minutes, and if it really is the best tactic, then sitting in that zone for 2 minutes 59 seconds becomes the best tactic. It’s a slippery slope because there will always exist camping tactics arbitrarily close to the specific kind of camping that is banned.
With teabagging the discretion would be how many times do you hit down before it’s considered teabagging? 2? 3? How far apart? What if it’s just one long press? Several long presses? How close to the opponent’s body decides whether or not it’s a teabag? Is it just over the face or crotch, or can it still be considered a teabag across the screen? Does jumping on the head (atomic teabag) count? If the opponent is in an optimal teabagging position but is just standing over the body, is that considered an insult on the same level as teabagging?
All of these factors have to be taken into consideration, and so far the best response anyone can give to how they would specifically define a teabag in order to enforce it has been simply met with an “They’ll just know” answer.
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Lol tell that to shooters
So is anyone picking up spinal
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I may not agree with this decision to ban teabagging BUT what I do agree with is that the people who run and organize a tournament should be allowed to run it how they see fit. If you don’t like the rule you can not participate, or get banned.
It would be like me throwing a new year’s party at my house and saying look, some people will be bringing their kids so no smoking in the house please. It’s my house and my party so you should respect my rules and if you don’t like it you can stay home.
Again, I don’t agree with banning it but their tournament their rules.
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I wish the tech threads were filled with this much enthusiasm.
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100% agree. Sadly I think most of the lab monsters who play the game do not frequent these forums.
The reason why it is banned is this.
If everybody knows what Tea bagging is then the
people running the show know also and it will fall
on them if they let it slide.
since that it is a form insult in a sexual nature..
Its just not appropriate for a public show.
Its great for trolling because it involves sex,
which is easy to put in one’s head, and hard to get out.
(See.)
It just has no place in the Tournament.
I tea bagged quite a few omen players in
my time, but would never in a tournament.
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