So more top players are taking a break from the game. Lets talk about why that is fine

General Discussion
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I personally don’t care if you like the game, don’t like the game, did like the game and now don’t like game, ect… that is your business and its fine. Do what you want to do.

But I find it irritating when people confuse criticism with salt. I just watched the latest 8BBD on 7/10 and I thought it was great! We saw a lot of new players showing thier stuff with Omen, Arbiter, and Gargos (#GargosGangBang) and beating some vets. But it seems like a quite a few veterans don’t like the way the direction of the game is going and they’re using the matches in the latest 8BBD to support there reasoning.

Now I’m not here to invalidate your opinions and decisions. I’m in no place to judge. If you want to take a break from the game, please do so. I would rather have that then you trash the community and the game just because you didn’t like it. Besides, there are lots of good fighting games out there to try.

I would just like all the top players to stop being so pretentious about thier opinions like they are the Supreme Court Justice of Fighting Games.

“Footsies should be like this!”

“Characters should be like that!”

Dude a fighting game can be almost anything it wants. You have games more like SFV and then you have games like GGRev and then you have games that are so different from traditional fighting games like Smash, Pokken, and Power Stone. Its ok if KI is a little different. I think it’s uniqueness is what makes it attractive and stand out. If you don’t like it, then that is fine. But don’t don’t say it needs to be more like street fighter or some other BS. If I wanted to play SFV-lite, I’ll go play SFV.

The competition is getting bigger, better, and different. The 8BBD is proving that.

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Agreed. I did not watch 8BBD, but I totally agree with your statements here. I love KI and the new season is so far, so great in my eyes.

I am a little immersed in competitive KI, so tell me: who in particular is having a falling out? Just curious.

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In a competition I don’t think spectators care that much who stays and who goes. I mean, let’s get some new blood in there then. If they wanna stick through it that’s fine. The old guard can too.

If you’re not enjoying it you have two options: either walk away and quit, or make the best out of the situation and carry onward.

Yeah, it sucks sometimes when things change for perhaps not in your favor, but what are you gona do? Complain it’s not right for you? It’s painful sometimes, sometimes you just can’t take it. That’s fine then.

It’s also a issue with money. If the pros aren’t making money…“why bother playing” is the mentality. Gamers think they can make a living off this stuff. Ok fine…just prepared for changes you may or may not agree with.

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I’d rather not call people out by name. You can easily search on Twitter tho

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There was an 8bbd last week?? Seriously why am I even following them on twitter if I never get the notifications!

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I think it changed to the official Killer Instinct Channel on twitch too. That confused me a lil bit a couple months ago.

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i swear, people treat KI like training mode to get ready for SF5. Its sad that the more established players are leaving. But like you said, this is KI, they shouldnt expect KI to be SF5.

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While I agree that it’s nicer to see people just leave the game instead of trashing it as well I don’t feel it was their main intention to just flat out hate on the game. Rather it was frustration that their favorite game is turning into something they don’t like.

I for one love KI but in no way support the new visuals for enders. Sure I hate them but don’t specifically hate KI for them. Just frustration that the game could be better if certain decisions on the game were not made. I feel this type of frustration is felt for pro players who can ignore visual aspects but not gameplay aspects.

Some things added to the game just cause such a drastic change.

People saying we shouldn’t worry that they are taking a break might be in the wrong here. It really depends on whether or not the rate of players and thier skill can replace the ones that are leaving which am not sure is actually true.

At a certain point the guys behind KI might have to say to themselves, are we making our fans happy. Seeing as how things are currently a lot more tense than they have ever been I wouldn’t say players are happy. Satisfaction rate may be happy in these forums here but that’s not exactly a reputable place to get feedback imo. It would be like if we have a super conservative person at Fox news a poll in which they would vote on whether they like Obama or not. Not a good source to represent America. Similarly, polls on these forums aren’t a great source for all KI fans. That last official survey may be the best they can do right next to adding an in-game poll. Even the official survey can be tainted. Seeing as how news of it became viral, a lot of non KI players could have finished the survey just so the game becomes more like smash.

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Mind posting a link with the pros expressing their opinions?

On a side note, before SFV was released, its seemed like it was the “in” this to do was ■■■■ on USFIV. Criticism range from “Option Fighter IV” to "That not how SF is, I’m going back to 3rd strike. SFIV was certainly a crazy in the sense of comeback mechanics and set-ups. Many vet longed for “Set-play” or “Reads and Footies” whatever that means, lol. Then after about 2-3 months of SFV, after a blotch launch all you saw was people complain about how boring, unengaged combo system, and inexpressive it is all over Eventhubs.

If pro player’s choose to leave, more power to them. But time will tell if the evolution of this game will be a successful one.

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If its on the KI channel, its the Pro League. 8BBD is on their own channel.

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Dont they still call it the same thing? Zombie hosts both in the same fashion.

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Nope, different events. Same thing, essentially. I believe the color scheme is slightly altered as well, more blue for 8BBD, black for KIPL.

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Like I said 2 weeks ago… when the big names are winning , everything is great…when they are loosing its all of a sudden the games fault or Keits fault. Notice the new up and coming players NEVER complain about the game. Only the big names that been around a while and have become spoiled to winning. Now that they loose they feel embarrassed and look to find any excuse they can to justify said losses.
When you become complacent and over confident you loose the hunger. This happens in all competitions from Games, to boxing, to football, to tennis, ect…

…and here comes the up and coming new players with the hunger and desire to win. That’s exactly whats happening and will happen at EVO.

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I tend to wonder if some people just get tired out by all of the changes, especially from one season to the next, but more subtle changes can take place from one revision to another. The idea that a player used to like the game, but doesn’t like where it’s at now, to me at least, can also speak to both fatigue by familiarity as well as fatigue by lack of familiarity.

In other words, KI has been out for almost three years now. Three years is a lot of time to be practicing and playing one game. So maybe some people are just ready to move on to something new?

But by that same token, if you’re used to that one thing for so long, but it keeps getting changed on you, like adding in recaptures and flip outs and ground bounces and staggers and adding moves to characters while nerfing others… I mean, when you know something so well and then it becomes unfamiliar again, there’s a trade off.

For less experienced players such as myself, I think it’s amazing. It makes the game feel fresh and new again and I’m excited to jump in and mess around with all of the new toys. But for experienced players who put so much time in to learning what they now know… To have some of that rendered inaccurate or even useless, and to have dealt with that repeatedly now, well I can see how that unfamiliarity might be daunting.

Add to that a roster that keeps growing, new matchups to learn, a constantly changing tier list and a community that has a tendency to fear change and/or have a heightened level of nostalgia for not just the old games, but for past seasons of this one and you have a recipe for frustration.

Again, I’m not one of those frustrated people. But I think that certain realities of this game and the way it’s unloaded might simply mean that it’s not going to be for everyone, all the time.

Some people didn’t like season one’s tone, or character designs like Glacius or Sadira. They saw that this wasn’t going to be the reboot of the old KIs that they knew and loved and saw season one as their off ramp and left.

Some didn’t like the massive amount of changes made prior to season 2. Some hated the recapture mechanic, thought TJ had too much going, hated Kan Ra, didn’t like some animations, the select screen, the way stage ultras were done, and decided they didn’t like where this new studio was taking the game after a glorious season one, and they saw their offramp and they left.

Some hated the shadow color change, the lack of arenas, the stage relighting, guest characters, the new rebalance etc and felt that season 3 was their off ramp.

The key thing to remember here though is that as other people are leaving, whether it be due to wanting a new experience or not liking what the game has become, that more people are taking the on ramp and taking their place. People that are trying the game out for the guests or they wanted to play it before but didn’t want an Xbox One.

This game is expanding and so is it’s audience, but the game is also changing and so is the audience. I’ve been in these forums since season one, as a lot of you have, and I’m sure many of you remember people that used to be on the forums all the time that are no longer here.

This phenomenon is fairly normal. After being over at MK Online for so long, lots of names came and went; people that posted every day who seemingly moved on to another site or another game or another hobby, only to be replaced by new names who would post every day. Granted, that site’s traffic is slowly grinding to a halt, but we don’t seem to be having this problem here.

Point is, I can very easily see tourney pros falling in line with a lot of these other trends where it comes to a game or series that’s been around for a while. I think that’s just life. You enjoy something until you don’t enjoy it anymore and then you move on. Maybe some of that is the game’s fault in their minds, maybe it’s not. But for a game that’s constantly changing, constantly evolving, all while trying to please casual and hardcore players alike, they’re not going to hit everyone’s bulls eye every time, which means there are plenty of off ramps built in along the way.

Here’s hoping more people keep getting on than getting off for a good long while. I still feel like this game has a ton of longevity left in it. Here’s hoping the next crop of pros agrees. :slight_smile:

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I somewhat disagree. The game brings people together, and in doing so brings out rivalries. We don’t have Team rivalries in the FGC, where players change but the team remains. We have player rivalries, e.g. Sleep vs Rico, which I’m more hyped about than the EVO Grand finals. The matches at an event have more spirit (for lack of better word) once we have backstory.

Agreed. It is intriguing when a player would ask: why does Fulgore have so many options after unsafe move once he has shadow meter? Or may say: In KI you play against the character, rather than in a game like SF where you play against the player … then I think about R. Mika :confused:. I’m a casual player, and my analysis of the grand finals of this week’s KI Pro League showed that KI is, like most (all?) fighting games, player vs player. If you got caught by a counter breaker 3 times in a row, you have been downloaded!! What about Fulgore’s unpunishable DP? Nino met Nicky in the air, rather than wait for him to perform eye lasers close to the ground. Sure, it wasn’t the grounded punish others have grown accustomed to against other DP characters, but it was challenged! Once you make up in your mind that Fulgore’s mechanics need changing, you lose the fight before the match starts.

100% agreed. I’m having more fun with Season 3 than I did with Season 2. While I can understand the criticisms that other players have with character changes in the recent updates since the launch, I’m still having more fun playing KI than SF. If you aren’t having fun playing it that is fine too: they are many great games out there.

I believe the allure of SFV is that everyone starts with a fresh slate, whilst KI has season 2 and season 1 veterans have put in the time to learn how to break combos whilst new players now have to learn the animations/audio cues. Some veterans have quit because the game has too many characters to learn (since they stopped playing), but now that SFV is adding characters to the roster in a similar fashion, will similar actions occur?

In my opinion, if you are having fun playing a game, you will continue playing. Part of that fun is friends/rivals to play against. Everything else is a smoke screen. You can either play what your friends are playing, even if it isn’t as fun as your favorite game, or make new friends with the players that are having fun with the same game as you.

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Not a top player, nor pro but allow me to play Devil’s Advocate.

I’m playing Thunder with no meter, Gargos has his two minions out and I’m about to score a game winning combo to place me into loser’s finals of a tournament.

Due to the nature of how enders work in the game, Gargos’ minions hit me out of my ender, causing me to lose the remaining life I had while the ender animations that were running do not deplete Gargos of his remaining life. Gargos wins, and I feel frustrated because I feel I deserved the win but was not given it due to what happened.

Situations like this bring frustrations to players because they earned that damage, they believe they should have won. Frankly, I would be inclined to agree. What’s a suggestion to request?

Give characters some form of invincibility on their enders so the situations that occur, like this, keep the effort and actions done by the player honored as their damage placed on an opponent is rewarded.

/Devil’s Advocate

I’ll deal with what is dealt to myself in the game, I get frustrated with a few things but the game itself is still very enjoyable to me. Bugs that occur I feel should be squashed.

I will say some of the criticisms that a few of my friends have aren’t just filled with hot air and many people wish for the game to continue and flourish with an effort for balance. Not everyone is complaining because their losing.

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I find your humble attitude here interesting, because a) everybody sees you as otherwise, and b) you were basically a shoutcaster at CEO - that’s not generally offered to someone unless you’re a top player and/or a pro. At the very least, you’re well known enough in the community and have enough clout to have others actually listen to you.

With that in mind, and to counter your example specifically - I disagree; enders should be vulnerable in some way, I think, because they’re the only part of the combo besides the opener that’s not, generally speaking, vulnerable. If you perform an ender that leaves you vulnerable to Gargos’ minions, then that’s your own fault. You could’ve a) killed the minion(s) 1st or b) used an ender that moves you away from said minions into a much safer position. If you lost because you did neither of these things and got hit by a minion during your ender, it’s your own fault for not considering all of the variables in play.

Besides, Orchid could knock you out of enders since S1 if she hit you with her instinct firecats prior to the start of your short-combo combo-ender (or her grenades in S2), so why complain about a similar setup with Gargos now?

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Well Gargos had his minions out. If you don’t deal with them and you don’t have meter, that is your fault. I know it’s annoying. Its suppose to be.

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So essentially, Gargos has invincibility on someone else using an ender because they have a minion out? Call me crazy, but that’s hardly balanced.

Leave that for Shadow Lords but on competitive play, being beat out of an ender is ridiculous.

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As others have pointed out, that’s always technically been possible, even if it was rarely seen/encountered.

I personally agree with how minions are currently incorporated, with all their annoyances and grief. They should be relentless and annoying, and you should have to take them into account for any action you might wish to take while they’re out. That said, I absolutely understand the frustration in dealing with them. They’re kind of like flipouts to me - I personally love them, but can understand why others don’t. I think that reasonable people can disagree on these things.

Gargos has a metric ton of deficiencies defensively, and minions can help alleviate that somewhat at the cost of a bar. I personally think that’s fair. Others may not. So long as we air our opinions constructively and respectfully, it’s all to the good IMO.

On topic, I don’t necessarily mind people leaving KI if the game isn’t fun to them anymore. I tend to take issue with both relentless complaining about the game at every available opportunity, and what I consider to disingenuous assertions about how KI “used” to be fair. KI 2013 has never been fair, full stop. It has always had some downright cheapness involved with it, with inescapable setups, unreactable nonsense, functionally infinite vortexes, and crazy damage shenanigans. It’s fine to talk game balance and question design decisions, but this mythical golden age of KI that people like to reference never existed. This game has always had dirt.

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