Will she be a ninja tho?
There is a difference between a clone and a remix.
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I’ll admit, I’m a little disappointed this isn’t the fabled “Mitsurugi/Samurai Jack” character of the game (Hopefully in Season 4? Maybe?..), but at the same time I’m also very intrigued to see how vastly different this version of Hisako is compared to her vanilla form. (Despite the fact it’s literally just Hisako, but with a sword.)
Come to think of it, I now see why they chose to announce her for the month of February…
(The Valentine Waifu, of an already exisiting waifu??? Must be twins…)
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I’m not trying to pick on you, but that argument is all over the place with the logic, and I can’t pinpoint what your exact definition is of a clone character.[quote=“anon39655210, post:50, topic:19156”]
Ryu, Ken, Sean, Sakura, Dan, Akuma
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These play similarly, but have variations within the play style that set them apart. They share a similar look with the gi they all have in common.
They all looked alike but NEVER played anything like one another. And their modern iterations look much different than they used to, so you can’t even say they are wardrobe clones in that respect anymore either.
They all share some similarities with a twin or family character, etc., but have lots of distinctive moves to set them apart. All they share in common are one or two specials or a fighting stance at best. None of them look alike though, and I wouldn’t even come close to calling Christie a girl Eddy.
If you want to get technical, characters like Tekken’s Mokujin, Soul Calibur’s charade, and SF4’s Seth are clone characters because they either technically outright steal other character’s moves or complete fight styles.
So you’re all over the place with your definition of clones. I can’t tell if you think clones just look alike, or if they play too much alike, or share some arbitrary percentage of new versus old.
Between Jago and Shadow Jago, they share about two (arguably) moves and the rest is a completely different approach to combat. Jago is a frame trap offense powerhouse with damage. Shadow Jago is about mixups, meter gain, juggles, and unpredictability.
Fulgore is about…well, honestly Fulgore does what he wants when he wants to. Kilgore switches between zoning and offensive because of one lost stance’s effectiveness when he overheats, but he plays drastically different from Fulgore, with far less freedom of choice in how to play.
So basically Shin Hisako is an upgraded Hisako. I’m sure she’ll play much differently from Hisako, but if you are concerned that it is not a 100% new character with a new model and costume and everything, I would say you’re kind of nitpicking aren’t you? I don’t see what the problem is, since from what I can tell is sort of your definition of a clone, we only have 2 clones so far, where as a lot of other fighters have more clones than that in any one iteration.
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Me: Shin Hisako is not an original character, IG is reusing assets already in the game for this character, and I choose to call these for clone characters.
Others: NUH-UH!!!
lol
If you are focusing on me using a term you disagree with, then you are focusing on the wrong thing.
Again, disagree with the term all you wish. But it is what it is.
Just to clear up some things, here’s what I wrote in another thread:
Edit:
Let me simplify this for you then…
Reusing assets already in the game to make a “new” character = Clone character.
Because they copy/pasted something from another character, repainted it and called it new.
Yes, Shin Hisako will have some new things. Just like Kilgore had some new things that Fulgore does not have. And same with Shadow Jago. But it’s all under the spectrum of what makes a clone character.
I discussed this back when they announced Kilgore. Feel free to go search for it.
My ONLY thing to worry about is if this character shares hisakos stance.
If this shinsako is bent over like hisako and has the head roll side to side…
Then by that definition, Omen is a Sabrewulf clone because he shares a command normal that resembles Sabrewulf’s special claw swipe, RAAM is a clone of Thunder because they both share a similar standing heavy kick that is also shared by Shadow Jago, and Mira is a clone of Maya because they both have that back+HP move that hits multiple times. One move asset is shared across multiple characters.
Like I said, your definition of clone is all over the place, and it’s hard to pinpoint what you mean, but sharing an asset hardly seems like a clone “thing.” Otherwise you have a lot of unaccounted for clones.
Even so, a new character based on an old one isn’t the end of the world. Shin Akuma and God Rugal in CvS2 are obviously based off their older boss counterparts, but have upgraded movesets. However, those two are actually really memorable characters given how powerful they were, even if they are by some definition a “clone”, so who says clones are necessarily bad? At least Shin Hisako isn’t going to play nearly as identical as Akuma plays to Shin Akuma.
To anyone worried about Shin Hisako gameplay being similar to Hisako gameplay in any way: take a look at what’s in their hands: a naginata (a pole arm) and a katana (a sword).
Anyone who’s tried to use either of those will tell you that you CANNOT use one like you would the other. Different styles of fighting had to be developed because each weapon has their own strengths. If you try and swing a spear (or even a pole axe) around like a sword, you’re giving the enemy a nice big handle to grab, and unless you’re using a greatsword chances are you aren’t going be able to reach near as far as any pole arm.
This is actually reflected in gameplay. Hisako’s rekkas may have a ton of reach, but if she’s too close they can be interrupted by a well placed fist or grab. And if the opponent blocks you or makes you whiff, you’re wide open for punishment. And that’s only with a broken naginata with half shorter handle.
Meanwhile swords are faster and allow the user to be more dexterous. A swordsman can adjust themselves, redirect/stop their blade if their opponent blocks or evades. They can make adjustments on the fly and be much more aggressive, and since swords are much lighter they’re also much faster. This is especially true of Japanese style swordsmanship, which focused primarily on quick flicks of the wrist rather than dramatic swings.
The only thing that would carry over gameplay-wise is Hisako is the sword’s relatively good parrying abilities. While shields are obviously superior for redirecting an enemy’s strike, swords do a pretty good job. I’d suspect this will work more like a Third Strike/Arbiter parry than regular Hisako’s (Reunion with Swordad = No Anger= No Wrath Meter).
…
Also I’m pretty sure @TheKeits teased on Twitter that she may have a DP. That’s a very not Hisako thing.
Call it by another name then. It doesn’t change anything though.
Again, focusing on what term I use is focusing on the wrong thing here. XD
I disagree. You seem to have a problem with “clone” characters, yet you constantly fail to create a clear definition by which others have an exact metric to measure the problem. So in failing to define what a clone character is, you’re contempt for the notion seems a little misplaced and somewhat unjustified, because you expect us to “just know” what you’re talking about.
No no, I did.
I made a clear definition of what I mean when I say clone character.
You ranting at me, because you think it is wrong, is taking your frustration out on the wrong guy. Facts still stand… Shin Hisako is still exactly what I said she is.
eh the term clone means different things to different people. In my case clone or not these characters like Shago and Omen seem to differ enough to warrant a space on the roster, especially considering they’re in-between characters (assuming season 4 will be a thing). Now I would rather these characters be selectable via secret select or something (pressing start when picking hisako for example) due to me being bothered with two slots jutting out the roster twitch but that’s another discussion entirely.
Back on topic, is shin hisako on the select screen with a countdown yet? I haven’t hooked my Xbox up just yet.
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You said she is a clone character, but you still haven’t clearly defined that term, or why it’s bad.
You haven’t stated any facts, only opinions, and a vague idea of the definition of a clone character, nothing concrete or defined.
But you’ve had your mind concluded, and passed judgment before the character has ever even launched. So I’m done trying to sway your opinion or change your mind.
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I always felt that characters that are the same person should share a slot on the character select screen.
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yeah I miss the mystery in fighting games lol. Remember when you were that cool kid that knew how to pick yang instead of yun haha.
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In my case it just feel more organized.
Are you just ignoring half my posts? Because I already did state why I think it’s a clone character, I already stated why Shin Hisako is one… Why it’s bad? It’s not inherently bad if you like that stuff… but I personally don’t.
And no, you shouldn’t try and make me change my opinion or sway it. I don’t like clone characters, and I already stated why. I want originality, I want uniquity, I want all NEW characters. Shin Hisako is not that.
And nothing you say is going to change that.
If you like such characters, if you end up liking Shin Hisako, then awesome! Good for you! I would NEVER tell people to not like it. I would never tell you to change your opinion! And I would expect you to not try and do so to me as well.
I try not to interject on other ppls status’ but i respected your stance right until you said this. I feel like you honestly got tired of being challenged in your opinion and just chalked up how you FEEL about clone characters as fact.
Is it okay for you to not like the idea of characters that have assets from previous assets? Of course. You are allowed to like and dislike whatever you want. However you are coming off as if the lack of originality and creativity should only be expressed to the characters you stated in KI.
when you can also make a claim that MOST characters in KI borrow aspects from previous character. What @IronFlame was trying to do was see if your opinion is consistent, he wasn’t trying to
Is not how you should feel about him. He’s genuinely confused on why you have your opinion and He wants understanding that your definition [quote=“anon39655210, post:50, topic:19156”]
The definition of a clone character is borrowing aspects from other characters already in the game, whether they are gameplay or design aspects
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Does not provide. By your definition above, his example provided a contradiction in your logic with his comparisons of[quote=“IronFlame, post:60, topic:19156”]
Omen is a Sabrewulf clone because he shares a command normal that resembles Sabrewulf’s special claw swipe, RAAM is a clone of Thunder because they both share a similar standing heavy kick that is also shared by Shadow Jago, and Mira is a clone of Maya because they both have that back+HP move that hits multiple times. One move asset is shared across multiple characters.
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Then you decided not too debate further and quit.
I just wanted to break this down so we can all understand that regardless of whether a clone character is good or bad…the way you decided to address this discussion was not productive. You may have to pardon me because i am guilty of sometimes being the forum police but i just felt that i should express this to you.
I was genuinely expecting a male samurai, undead or not, but definitely male. I have nothing against female characters but there are more female characters than male ones in the game right now (excluding monsters) and I was hoping for a male to balance it out.
Also, while I’m not really fond of character family-ties (we already have Jago & Orchid, Maya & Mira, Thunder & Eagle…), I even preferred Hisako’s father to an alternative version of Hisako herself. Not only would it be a male character, it would also resemble more of an actual samurai or shogun.
However, what bothers me the most about this new character is that it is an alternative version of an existing one. Reminds me of when Capcom released Evil Ryu and Oni back in SSF4 and wasted 2 perfectly good chances of bringing back an old favorite or a brand new character. I can tolerate the so-called “shoto-clones” like Ken, Dan, Sakura and the likes (because they are different characters in themselves) but alternative versions of the same character I have a hard time dealing with.
I tolerated Shadow Jago because at the time I thought it was a one-off thing and his design kinda grew on me. But even then I didn’t fully embrace the idea.
As for Kilgore, I accepted it much easier since he was a new character in itself to me. It can be considered a clone, but a different character altogether, like Cyrax & Sektor from MK and the previously mentioned shoto-clones. So when the developers started talking about “remixed characters” I expected more clones (i.e., different characters that play like existing ones) rather than alternative versions of existing characters.
Put bluntly, if Shin Hisako simply had a different name and were not Hisako in any form (but remained the same in terms of appearance and gameplay) I would embrace her better.
With that said, let’s wait to see what the character has to offer. Hopefully she will be more interesting gameplay-wise than lore-wise.
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