Funny you mention a wine color, that was one of my first suggestions a long time ago.
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A carpet or shotgun spread of the 5? (more so than a wall 
)
⊠Rushdown-Zoner for moi⊠A class of his own that with many names, all mean the same the thingâŠ
â â â â !
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A very nice. But in regards to #4
Donât forget about his approach with dash, he can cancel with a special or throw. Heâs probably only safe with some surge ability but heâs not 100% committed to a forward dash.
If thereâs a hard knockdown, yes he gives up a Shadow Meter, but he gains 2 for going Ginyu Force!
AND THEN heâs got an FB to play tag with if he confirms a hit or sees a non-neutral jump.
If you put Orchid as top tier, I believe youâll find his corner pressure just as, if not more devastating as his corner is also half a screen with almost every enhanced tool that she has⊠And that med. kick/dash cancelable pushback!
I believe he can travel near full screen with a single or double FP followed by a dash to use a DP if jumped in on, a Slide against counter FBâs and highs, and if you donât use any of those and make a full dash, you can leap dive kick or sweep/low poke for moâ pressure or even to follow a confirmed FB!
AWESOME! Canât wait for Shago to come out soon! : D
BTW, whatâs with Keitsâ obsession with filling the screen with junk (i.e. projectiles)? Maya, Kan-Ra, Aria, Cinder and even Aganos are notorious for this. Kan-Ra and Maya, especially, have people pulling their own hairs out.
Shadow Jago sounds cool, but I feel like he is gonna take a MASSIVE amount of work to playâŠAnd it still seems In a Jago MU, Jago still has the upper handâŠ
IMO
Cool that the sword dp from the classic ki was added
Man, this sounds pretty awesome. Canât wait to give him a shot!
He can choose to cancel the middle of his teleport into something unsafe, yeah, but I donât think itâll be particularly great. You wonât hit me with a DP or a throw unless Iâm at the perfect range AND I donât hit you out of your dash before you get there, and canceling into dive kick as a movement/mixup option sounds cool but itâll probably be pretty easy to anti-air it (depending on the speed of the dive kick, etc; if itâs anything like Akumaâs demon flip then it will be beyond easy to react).
Youâll have to find the perfect range to dash, is my point⊠and typically, dashes are used to help you move into good ranges for yourself, so itâs kind of the opposite. Youâll have to walk to that range, then dash, which, depending on your walk speed, is hard. If youâre at a bad range and you try to dash, I think youâll probably just eat it, even if you try to do some cancel option.
So based on the information and speculation from everybody, it seems Shadow Jago is heavily dependent on Spacing, so if you were to take that away, heâd have a hard time trying to set things up. Correct? Or did I miss something?
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Thereâs a lot to process here. Itâs going to be very tough to see how this all fits together without getting our hands on him. Itâs lots of tools so I suspect he wonât do a ton of damage with his normals or combos.
In any case, itâs great to get some news and Iâm looking forward to seeing him in action.
You know what would be an amazing plot twist? If Shadow Jago actually embraces his inner demon. As in we discover the source of his power can sustain itself without Omen, thereby creating an even deeper arc for Omenâs story as more than just a Herald. But rather a being with an entirely different purpose. Shadow Jago embracing his dark power would further differentiate him from other tragic protagonists.
^This especially.
I donât think people really understand what a big loss wind kick is. Facing a Jago player, you have to respect wind kick in the midrange because itâs such a low-risk option, which means it oppresses your approach options, so it allows Jago to reliably control horizontal space. Without wind kick, Shago only has surge, and otherwise truly YOLO options in the slide and (maybe) the divekick with which to threaten the midrange, aside from fireballs which will probably still have reactable startup.
That actually might be why his fireballs are going to be faster-traveling. They donât incentivise you to hold back in the midrange in anticipation, but you have to deal with them more immediately, which could help Shago pin you down or keep you busy/distracted while he positions himself for a mixup, I guess? I recall speculating on the old forums back when I thought he might end up with boss Shagoâs double fireball, that he might have a projectile rushdown game driven by the slide/divekick mixup. With surge and that forward dash I guess the mixup tools are definitely there, but I think we need to see the fireballs to know how they factor in.
Also speaking of safe specials, Jagoâs pressure game is entirely about safe frame trapping that converts into combos largely and seamlessly via laser sword, which also generates plus frames on block, which I think is a more subtle but certainly important loss. I also discussed how I thought Jago might lose his stable frame trapping game on the old forums, and I think Iâm being proven correct about that based on what we know. The only tools Shago looks to be keeping for generating frame advantage are light buttons and cr/clMK, and maybe that push kick? (That reminds me: double roundhouse is a pretty big loss, too.) Also, how is he going to open combos? Maybe he can manual off of a fireball like Jago can, or his overhead will be safe on block and combo off of a normal that you cancel into it, letting him cancel into it and then into an unsafe opener? Maybe light slide will be safe? Or maybe you just have to suck it up and do something unsafe if you want to open a combo?
So yeah, even at this stage with the amount of unknowns at the moment, I donât think this is the death of Jago. Iâm likely to continue to main Jago for a long time yet, because I derive a steady satisfaction from doing the stuff that I feel are the strengths of Jagoâs gameplan and that Shago wonât have. H`ell I even think Jago is a superior creative design to Shago.
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What are you trying to say? I didnât call Jago YOLO. In particular, I donât consider wind kick to be YOLO at all.
On the other hand, an unsafe slide has much more of a YOLO nature to it. Not that thatâs a bad thing, mind.
yes u did. i took a screen shot and im mocking it on social media
âŠwhy would I care about that?
his may be but they all have a reason behind the madness. Mayaâs projectles are meant to force you to block, but unless she has Instinct mode she can only throw it once and then has to go get her projectiles. So long as you avoid them you should be good for the time.
Cinderâs bombs are meant to keep someone from doing whatever they want, this is especially helpful against zoners to keep them in their place so you can make your approach a bit more safely.
Kan-Ra being a zoneing grappler, moves like scarabs and the like are meant to serve as a wll of defense. But you can destroy them to get through.
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Only if you dodge them. Good Maya players rarely lose their daggers. If they do, her ridiculous mobility makes it fairly easy for them to be recovered.
Easier said than done. Sometimes, it feels as if those daggers come at you at the speed of light. They are very hard to react to.
If you donât expect them, youâre mostly likely not going to dodge them.
And they do too good a job at it. They are too spammable and, frankly, cheap at the rate Cinder is able to throw them. Itâs probably the second or third best projectile in the game after Mayaâs daggers and possibly Kan-Raâs Scarabs.
Wall of defense? Sometimes, I feel like good Kan-Ra players can win matches with Scarabs alone.
Clearing them is a lot easier said than done. In fact, clearing them, even with a jab, is risky because it leaves you open to an attack.