Sadira offense and defense questions

Characters Sadira
1

Hoping I can pick some smarter brains on this:

  1. I’ve seen Sadiras use combos that incorporate her web cling while the opponent is in the air, yet I haven’t been able to time this or find the right button combinations to do this to save my life. Can this only be done in instinct? What’s a good button combo to keep the opponent in the air to be able to use web cling?

  1. Is Sadira no longer able to multiple salticidea in to widows drop on an airborn opponent since 3.9? Maybe my controller just sucks or my timing suddenly stinks, but I keep throwing out a regular HK instead of down HK after the first salticidae. Anyone else having this issue or is it just me? Never had this problem before 3.9 dropped.

  2. Speaking of which, is anyone having trouble connecting a shadow recluse on a falling opponent after something standard like throw, salticidae, widows drop, shadow recluse, or something along those lines? I don’t know if the timing was tightened or it’s my controller or if it’s user error (certainly possible, I suppose), but there were times when I know shadow recluse was timed well and her leg seemingly went through the opponent and shadow recluse missed.

  3. Defensively, I know that Sadira doesn’t have much in the way of a wake-up game, but is there a preferred method to deal with pressure on wake up, especially if you’re cornered?

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Any Web Cling combo with web has to be done while in Instinct. The timing and spacing is very strict. I honestly never use them within an actual match, as she can get a WHOLE lot more damage with a solid grounded combo. (although I do use them to extend an already areal combo.

It seems they did nerf this, as after two consecutive Salticides she actually just does an HK attack. I sort of agree with this though, as he could literally Salticide somebody well beyond the confines of the arena.

As far as pressure goes, learning to block and effectively use Shadow Counters is your best option. Sadira does have SWC, but I don’t rely on it unless it is to dodge a jump in attack, such as a Sabrewulf Slasher Claws or his Eclipse. At the end of the day learning grounded and areal footsies is your best friend with Sadira.

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Ah, good to know! I had a feeling, as it seems a web is needed to hold the opponent in the air for that extra second that you need. Although the timing and spacing are strict, can you recommend any combo in particular that she can use while in instinct that incorporates web cling?

Okay good, I’m glad I’m not going crazy here. I didn’t see anything about this in patch notes or anything, so I was starting to question if I was doing something wrong or what the deal was. I don’t really mind it, I guess, and you’re right. She used to go beyond the confines of the stage, which always looked weird. She can still kinda do that, but not quite as much, it seems.

Do you have any problems with connecting shadow recluse off of combos like these or is my timing just off for some reason? Let’s say I throw, salticidae, widows drop… I can normally shadow recluse, but it seems as though they either tightened the timing or closed the window entirely. I’ll have to lab this again tonight to be sure, but I noticed that I was missing shadow recluse on this kind of combo a lot more than I usually do, and sometimes the opponent seemed well within normal range of this move working pre-3.9.

Yeah SWC doesn’t really help in the corner, of course, and I agree it’s not the safest move to attempt if your opponent is in full attack move, as I tend to get hit out of it regularly.

What kind of grounded footsies do you try to use on wake up to give yourself some space? I’m relatively decent at aerial footsies on incoming opponents, but when someone can time my wakeup and go right in to wailing on me, I try and block, but I’m not really that good at finding moves that can interrupt the opponents flow. Any suggestions?

If not, it’s totally cool. I appreciate any and all help and advice you’ve given me so far, of course! I’m just kinda trying to get my mediocre Sadira to the next level and pressure seems to be my biggest weakness at the moment.

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The only time that I ever used WC during Instinct, was to dodge an attack and leave a web in my wake, allowing me to come right back at them while they are stuck. I’ve seen incredibly flashy combos with Web Cling, but I’ve never found them practical for ranked gameplay. Yes they look cool, but there are much better options and set ups that Sadira can use.

If I had to completely play a grounded game, such as when facing a good Jago, I use a lot of her pokes, such a LP as well as LK. I also use standing MP and HK to keep a player in check.

Learning to block successfully and recognized mind games helps. Sadira is pretty lousy on the ground, but there are things that help. Worse comes to worse, allow yourself to get hit and break the combo. This will push the other party away and give you some room to breath.

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I hear ya. They’re not the most practical combos, for sure. I’d just like to know how to do them so, if nothing else, I have a greater understanding of what she can do with me, specifically, at the controller. That’s really why I want to know the actual button presses of a combo that could utilize web cling in this way. I just want to know how to do it more than I actually want to do it. Does that make sense?

Eh, probably not, but oh well, lol.

Thanks! I appreciate it. I don’t use LP and LK nearly as much when an enemy is up close and I really should. I tend to try to use HK which is kinda backward logic since if an opponent is right on top you, using one of her slower pokes can’t create the distance I want if it’s getting stuffed.

I’ll try to utilize LP, LK and MP more. Thanks again!

I definitely need to improve my breaker game, no question. I’m decent at it, but I could be much better. I also need to learn how to block more and pick my spots. I’ve been playing single player for so long that you get used to a lot of what AI would try to do, but obviously that’s no match for how a human plays and I’m just really not used to that at the moment.

Really appreciate all the advice! Hopefully my Sadira can somewhat approach respectability at some point, but for now, I’m still feeling like I need to learn more of how to play her specifically, and all of this helps a lot.

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In terms of the areal stuff, it’s simply Juggle Combo, Web, Web Cling into Punch/Kick. Web, Web Cling into Punck/ Kick Web (and Ender)…

The hardest part in respect to this, is learning to time your webs. A great way to practice web timing is use them in grounded combos, such as HP, Web, HP, Web, HK, Web, Ender.

Your web has to take the place of an auto or manual, or the player will be able to block.

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Oh okay, yeah that would make sense as to why my timing was way off. I think I was trying to time the web with more of a delay. I’ll try it on the ground first to get the timing. Thanks man!

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Always make sure you are focusing on optimizing her tools over flash. I REALLY love doing flashy stuff, but at the end of the day, that won’t win matches. Just keep that in mind when you’re in the lab.

In short, fundamentals first, and then flash. :slight_smile:

Also @Iago407 besides web tech, make sure you are mastering tiger kneeing SWB. SWB is the most damaging Shadow in the game, but it is also one of the easiest to break. If you lock your opponent out on the ground, make sure you jump cancel SWB off LK to maximize damage.

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I do love the flashy stuff, but I’ll be the first to admit that I’m not particularly good at it. I think I’m trying to learn more of it for variety’s sake as well; to be able to throw something different at the opponent that they might not expect. Now obviously on higher levels, that’s not a sound strategy, and fundamentals win the day, but I’m still trying to have as much of a variety as possible to help prevent me from falling in to specific patterns (like I am now).

I didn’t realize SWB was so damaging! Full confession, it’s one of my least used shadow moves. Shadow Web cling for escaping, shadow blade demon for damage, counter attacking and escaping and shadow recluse for damage and ending a juggle combo tend to be my go-to’s. I’ll try to incorporate SWB more though. You say to do it off of LK once I’ve launched a locked out opponent?

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SWB is Sadira’s Glacius SCS move, and it is best used during a lock out. Learning to jump cancel it after a lockout not only looks flashy, but does a TON of damage.

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So gounded combo, opponent locks out, launcher ender, jumping LK to shadow widows bite? Or is there another / better method that you’re thinking about here?

Can you follow up SWB with anything else? Sorry for all the questions, as I said it’s really not a shadow move that I use all that often since Shadow Recluse does so much damage and allows for follow ups. Are you saying that Shadow Widows Bite does even more?

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Combo of choice, into LK manual, JC SWB, auto of choice and Ender.

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Sorry, I’m not sure I understand. Maybe I’m just not picturing it properly. Combo of choice, but light kick manual? How does that pop the opponent up for her to jump cancel in to SWB? Am I using her flipout? Really sorry, but I must be missing something.

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Sadira can JC any move off of an LK manual. If you use LK during a combo you can the JC SWB and then perform an auto and then Ender of choice.

I’ll do a vid over the weekend. Sadly, I have to reinstall KI as I’m trying to fix a few bugs that were causing my games to crash.

Sadira will not launch the other player, but if performed correctly the SWB will become a shadow linker. This is VERY tricky, but well worth it.

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  1. As I understand your question, the answer is no, web cling can be used in any air combo, not just in instinct. The goal is to cancel into web cling after one of your air normals. Ex: launcher ender->jump+MK(x2)->M. widow’s bite->jump+HK->web cling. This will put them on the ground and send you flying off for your web cling. If they quick rise, then they’re going to wind up standing into a meaty air normal as you come flying back at them. EDIT: if you’re asking about comboing with web cling in the air, then yes, you’ll need an instinct web to hold them in place.

  2. Answered.

  3. I haven’t had any issues cashing out juggles that I’ve noticed.

  4. Your best options are going to be just blocking it out or shadow countering. Particularly in the corner, SWC will get you nothing at all. Mid-screen backdashing can also be a viable option, but be careful not to do it too much. And if you don’t believe in your opponent’s meaty timing, you can wake up with shadow recluse. It’s not invincible at all, but since it’s zero after the freeze it can often blow up poorly timed oki pressure.

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SR is throw invulnerable, but that is it… to be specific.

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If I’m actually picturing what you’re saying here, wow… I honestly never even knew that was possible! That sound awesome and I agree it’s got some flash to it, while also being damaging. That sounds great! I’ll have to try that out tonight in the lab.

That’d be awesome! I’d appreciate it. Sorry you’ve had so many issues with KI recently. I know you mentioned a bunch of them in your “KI is a mess” thread. That really sucks, but hopefully the reinstall helps.

Man, that’s crazy, I had no idea!

Yeah that’s mainly what I’ve been curious about. I’ve seen some really stylish combos, mainly from UAKalypso where he seems to do those combos effortlessly (though I’m sure it took him a ton of effort to perfect them, unless he’s just a complete natural / prodigy).

I was just curious as to what button presses need to be done to keep an opponent in the air while also being able to hit them in mid-air with web-cling. So if a web has to be used in instinct, as you say, what must be done before that to make the web-cling hit? That’s more what I was trying to figure out as I can’t seem to do anything that keeps the opponent in the air long enough.

Maybe it’s just me. I never used to have this problem before, but maybe I just ran in to a run of bad timing on my part and didn’t see it well enough. I’ll try again tonight. Thanks!

Good to know, thanks! Does regular recluse have the same effect on poorly timed pressure? Is there a better version to use (ie LK or MK or HK)? I agree that SWC in the corner is useless. I think that’s usually where I run in to the most problems; when I’m cornered. Shadow countering is an option a times, for sure, but when you say blocking it out, what moves would you suggest following the blocks? Would you also suggest light pokes like @SoSRaGnArOk suggested?

I know that her wake-up game is among the weakest parts of her game, but do you have any preferred responses once you’ve blocked pressure while stuck in the corner?

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In terms of pokes… What will help you is knowing the frame data of your opponents. For example, in a Hisako match, if Hisako doesn’t have wrath, you can safely poke her between her rekkas. So a LP/LK is great at getting the pressure off.

Stuff like that.

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Ah, gotcha. Thanks! Last matches I played recently, I got worked over by aggressive Wulfs and Fulgores. The Wulf’s aren’t so bad since I can recognize his autos pretty easily, but Fulgore’s another matter entirely. As soon as I was in the corner, I was done, so this is all helpful. Much appreciated!

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Depends what you block and how you feel about your reactions. If they’re doing tight pressure, then light pokes. If they do something wildly unsafe, make them eat it with heavy->opener. If you’re in the corner, sometimes you’ll just want to (single) jump over them and make them block a crossup HK, and then it’ll be your turn to make them guess. Taking your turn back should be contextual. It’s fine to mash LP as a base reaction to “it’s my turn now”, but as in all things, you’ll really want to optimize those things to take your game to the next level. Sometimes you should throw, sometimes you should medium punch, sometimes you should cr.LK, etc.

Half true - it depends on the rekka Hisako uses. If she’s using heavy rekkas, you can’t mash in between regardless of her wrath state. For the mixup rekkas you can mash, and I’d suggest that Sako’s wrath is largely immaterial here as well. Counter canceling rekka against a character without a DP is a bad option, so you will very rarely see a Hisako player try to bait counter in this manner. If they want to punish you pushing buttons they’ll just heavy rekka you; they won’t take chances on trying to predict an LP/LK mashout. So if you’re feeling bold just do it - Hisako’s wrath state during rekka doesn’t really matter in this case.

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