Besides the fact @Fnrslvr already answered that the vsync stuff was just RoTR devs screwing up, enabling vsync doesn’t induce input delay in fighting games.
This game runs at 60fps. The quickest ANY input you do can produce results on the screen is 16,67ms, any inputs faster than that are gonna be merged into a simple input by the input buffer system. Techniques like plinking and kara cancels work because of that, you input more than one command in less than 16,67ms and the buffer system will solve that in a way that produces an option select for you.
Because the gameplay is tied to FPS (as most fighting games are) and fixed at 60fps, even if you turn vsync off all this does is create a slight desync between the framebuffer and the screen if the refresh rate is not exactly 60Hz (some screens run at 59Hz for example). This desync is very small, like less than one frame at every 60 frames. All it does is create the screen tear characteristic of vsync being off.
Even in other kind of games that can run at any resolution, not always this means you’ll have less input lag by turning vsync off. Not all games run it’s input reading and physics simulation synced with frame rendering, some games always run simulations at 60Hz regardless of how many frames they are rendering. In fact I remember the developers saying in an interview that KI actually run it’s simulations at something like 90Hz regardless of fps because of the rollback based netcode.
The good thing about KI on Windows Store is that you can download it and try it out for free. If it turns out there is an input delay or other things that somehow lead to a subpar experience, then don’t spend money on it, simple as that. Of course it sucks but if you’re lucky MS will look into those things. Simply refusing to download because it’s not on steam is a poor excuse imo. And as some folks already pointed out, they want to expand their player base via crossplay and if UWP easily allows for that, it’s the way to go.
Egh, there is a ton of ideological hyperbole flying around, though. The entire thread seems to be running on it. We have the OP, who clearly knows little about any of the platforms involved, filling the thread with lots of well-intending yet ultimately misinformed arguments, and linking to some article by an agenda-pushing modder with a hardon for the x86 Win32 ecosystem who frankly wove a lot of dishonest statements into his overall thesis. So far it all strikes me as little more than someone reminding us of that loud myopic PC enthusiasts and power users are once again rallying to kill progress.
It is too early too judge whether ot not UWP is progress. In its current state it brings only restrictions and inconveniences for the consumer with little benefit.
But, at the same time, this is the only way we can have a port that’s cross-buy/play. If we can bear with it for the time being, and continue to voice our concerns in a civilized manner, things will be changed or MS will be forever shunned by the PC community… even though they make the OS that runs on a lot of people’s systems.
I couldn’t have said it better. The OP is clearly from GAF. There are whole threads over there of people that think they know what’s best for PC gaming, in an outright cardiac arrest over this. Most of it hinges on the belief that Microsoft is evil and wants to take away their toys.
Most of the concerns will be ironed out, but this is the way things are headed. The wild west days of .exe and all the bad (and good) they bring with them is coming to an end. And like the original Xbox One reveal, people are in a severe panic because they can’t stand change and can’t imagine things differently.
Huh, I thought they are a bunch of obnoxious Sony fanboys.
But some things they proposed were objectively terrible, like always on. I trust my connection, but do you trust their servers to have 100% uptime? Imagine every major release to be as disastrous as SimCity.
Anyway, I think people are right to be cautious and have little trust in MS, at least for the time being. There are certainly reasons for distrust.
I think this point needs to be repeated many times over.
I realize many PC gamers love their mods, and I get that they’re a great selling point for a games’ longevity. That said, not having this doesn’t retract from KI’s already engaging gameplay that you’re looking at and playing with.
I’m not big on mods myself, but these are entirely cosmetic which is just a utility/want instead of a need.
We need the game to great on launch much like it did when the Xbox One launched in 11/2013. We need to have the game be hindered by as little as possible. When addressed in a “TheKnow” episode last week, this whole UWP seemed entirely placed on fear. Phil, XboxQuik have came out on these issues and have said that they’re going to be mitigated (paraphrasing). Considering just how transparent Phil, the MS KI team, and IG have been, I think these issues will be mitigated in a proper time period. If they’re wanting to compete, it would make sense right? They hear our feedback, whether they post it or not, trust me. They do hear our feedback.
I like to use mods with my PC games (using a ton of them for XCOM 2 right now) but the concern I have is for how having the ability to use mods may affect KI’s online gameplay, particularly the cross-play.
You want to change how a character looks on your end, which I will never see? I’m ok with that. But there needs to be enough protection worked in to make sure that there is no way someone can alter files that have a gameplay effect, considering how much of KI’s integral gameplay is online 1v1.
You can bet that if we start to run into “hacked” files and players, there will be a lot more patching needed than Season 2 (I liked the patches, others didn’t). And if it remains a problem, I’m going to be first in line to ask for cross-play to be disabled because I’m not interested in playing against someone who’s auto-breaking or cheating in any way, and I will be primarily playing on my XBOne.
I don’t know, cross-play/buy/save seems like a great benefit to me. I’m also shocked to see people espouse the purity and freedom of the friggen native Win32 binary of all things – I’m sure RMS feels an involuntary shudder overcome him every time anybody anywhere says something like that.
But you’re right, we don’t entirely know whether or not UWP is progress. Indeed for some purposes it looks in danger of being a step back.
But you can’t expect your platform to progress if every time its maker tries to do something new, everyone gets whipped up into a lather and protests until they abandon their efforts entirely. We’ve had basically the same environment for 20 years, with apparently the only allowed progress being incremental improvements to DirectX. And really, if you can’t trust the makers of your platform to progress the platform in fruitful ways, you should be planning an exit strategy.
I’d have more sympathy if they were going to switch off Win32 tomorrow, but that’s basically impossible.
For the record, I never goto neogaf and have no clue what is going on over there.
Im sad to see what I’ve said is being dismissed because you think i’m misinformed about the platform as I’ve done my best to read up on it as much as possible. I’ve seen Microsofts replies to things like Tim Sweenys giant rant and Tim even retracted several things. That doesn’t mean that my trust in Microsofts ability and motivation to do things right in the PC gaming space is restored by any means, and if you don’t understand why I’m hesitant to trust what they are saying will be fixed then i suggest you look into their history of both gaming and what their current leadership is doing with Windows 10 being pushed down everyone’s throats.
To me, there are 2 aspects to this; the aspect of KIs pc port specifically, and what this platform means for the future of PC gaming in the future. In respect to KI directly, admittedly a lot of what has been proposed as current limitations of the platform don’t directly negatively affect it shy of the vsync issue. And even this has yet to be seen and only seeing it in action will show if it’s an issue or not.
However, let’s assume everything Microsoft has promised to fix is fixed. This means Iron Galaxy will have to implement the fixes as giving the platform updated tools to work with doesn’t automatically fix the games already affected by it. It would have to be seen how quickly IG can implement the fixes, and by that time it could be seen as not worth the time and resources if it doesn’t do well at launch. If you don’t know where this concern comes from, just look at Mkx on PC and how they stopped support even after 500,000 bought the pc version.
And briefly going into pc gaming in general, the reason why keeping things not locked down on PC is important because so many people have an infinite number of hardware setups that devs can attempt to support, but a lot of times things just don’t work on certain hardware configurations. Platforms like UWP work on things like tablets and phones because they have certain hardware configs thst can be developed for and supported. Creating a similar ecosystem on PC that utilize the highest end of hardware means limitations would, I think, have to be in place to make it work on as many machines as possible. Taking the ability to fix things on our side instead of hoping devs have the resources to fix it, and think it’s worth the resources in the first place, is what people are so up in arms about.
I’ll end with this; I’m not trying to ruffle any feathers, and i’m not trying to push any agenda or anything. If there is anything I’ve said that is wrong or misinformed, please correct me instead of just dismissing what I say because you say i don’t know what I’m talking about. That’s why I started this thread so that discussion can be had.
Yes, looking back at how Microsoft was conducting business in the past and what they’re doing now, seems to look similar. However, what if they are giving this an honest push? We wouldn’t know for sure unless you take them at their word. Which, given their history, is hard to do for a lot of people.
What happens when they correct the things that they’ve messed up? Perhaps they’re doing that right now.
I’m not gonna say you should throw doubt out the window and jump onto the other side. I will say, however, that this is their 2nd shot at trying to push their games onto the platform. Everyone makes mistakes. No exceptions.
This, to me, looks like a good opportunity for them if, and only if, they take what’s been said about their platform and correct the issues people have with it. I really hope PS is really going to stick it out and grit his teeth through this onslaught of feedback, because I want KI to do well on PC.
I hate to be this guy again, but here we are having a huge discussion about the business policies and practices of MS because people are agonizing over whether to purchase one game that they supposedly want. I think this is ridiculous.
If you want the game, buy it off the Windows Store. If you don’t want it, then move along. It’s one game. You don’t want to have to buy a whole console to play a single game. Okay, fine. It’s now on PC. Well, I don’t want it if it’s not on the right store. Okay, fine - then go away. It’s not a long term financial investment. It’s buying a game. Are PC players expecting to actually buy the game and play it or are they expecting to buy the game and then examine all the different ways the Universal Windows App works. Where does this conversation end?
“I’d love to buy this game. I’ve been desperate to try it for so long. But I need a physical copy. And it has to be hand delivered to me by Unicorns. So I can play it in 4K on my Atari Jaguar. These are simple things - I don’t know why MS is being so stupid about it.”
It’s a matter of principle – supporting or not supporting a company that makes some questionable major moves in the industry. Sometimes you have conflicting emotions – you want to play the game, but don’t want to support the company, that’s why people are torn. Or they want to play the game, but don’t want to deal with the hassle that goes with it.
Enjoy your principles. I will enjoy KI. I wish they had stuck a “I might buy KI on PC if it matches my view of a principled game release,” option in the forum poll. We aren’t talking about the Bill of Rights here. We are talking about vsync and overlays. Frankly, I don’t see it as principle. I see it as an immature attitude about how the world should conform to your ideas about what is desirable - regardless of any other considerations.
We have people simultaneously arguing that MS should put the game in other market places while suggesting that they are worried about MS abandoning the Windows Store…
No, it’s much more than that. Those are the minor issues, petty things, a symptom. The bigger picture is far more interesting. MS tries to change PC gaming for better or worse and eventually we will know which one is true. Are we ultimately going towards the elemination of user control, handing it over to Microsoft, locking away options in their system and in their gaming platform, while overzealously pushing them? Or are those things just minor tradeoffs for something good for gaming? We’ll see.
Yeah, when the platform has more variables and is a bit more complicated than “plug in this ■■■■ and play” (not firing shots, I have nothing against consoles), of course there is a bit more to the release than the game itself. I don’t feel like people always need to make disclaimers that they will purchase the game unless the publishers do something unreasonable, it’s implied.
It’s simple, nobody would care about the store if they sold their games in other places. But since there is no choice, we are stuck with it. People are concerned about it not out of compassion, MS has a history, not a good one.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but MS isn’t blocking Steam on Win10 are they? I seem to still be able to access my library of games and they run just fine. So, frankly, I’m uninterested in all these discussions. Some games come with certain options that others don’t. It’s always been that way.
We are sitting on a KI forum and people are complaining that they won’t buy the game without these features and getting into endless discussions about the universal windows app. Do you want to play KI? Up until March 29th you need to get an Xbox One. Starting March 29th, you can play it on PC but you have to get it from the WIndows Store. Instead of saying
great" people are STILL complaining. How many successive MS platforms do you think MS should abandon to allow you to play KI? Maybe they should skip Win10 and just put it on SteamOS and iOS instead?
The point still stands. No one is asking you to buy into some sort of PC gaming revolution. But you all asked for the game. It’s a MS property. If you are surprised that they are selling it through Microsoft’s store then there’s nothing I can say to you. Buy it or don’t.
I mean, yes. All criticisms can be dismissed with this statement. Don’t like the fact that there are only 3 new stages in the game? Don’t play it. Too many guests? Don’t play it. Don’t like new music? Don’t play it.
Forum is for discussion and people complain and discuss and argue, because they care. But ultimately it comes down to “don’t play if tou don’t like”, but then you wouldn’t need any forums.
It’s not a questions of not discussing it. Make an off-topic thread and chat about all the issues with the Windows Store as much as you want to.
But there is no argument left for people who are just ratcheting up the ever escalating demands for how the PC release must be handled - otherwise they won’t play the game. They love it so much, but every trivial detail is a deal breaker.
Don’t like the complaints? Don’t read them. See? Don’t play it if you don’t like it isn’t a valid arguement. Otherwise,complaints wouldn’ exist in the first place.