I use the Steam overlay a lot for lots of things. It’s not perfect but it’s pretty good for what it needs to be (way better than the Xbox One interface, but that’s to be expected since it’s built for keyboard and mouse). But the main thing is, being able to tell your Steam friends “hey I’m playing Killer Instinct” is important. It advertises the game to your friends, it helps people know that you’re busy with a game even though you’re not playing a Steam game, etc. It comes for free with any .exe, so UWP doesn’t even have to do anything special. They just have to make sure their platform isn’t so abnormal as to block it.
The streaming thing is a real concern, but I’ll admit that I don’t have Windows 10 and I don’t know how current UWP apps work with streaming first hand. All I know is what I’ve heard on various sites, and some of that might not be accurate. I sure hope a lot of the stuff I’ve read about it is wrong.
But, for example, I was thinking about transitioning to the PC version for capturing videos for my guide. Would be super easy to just run OBS in the background and get all the footage I need at the touch of a button, rather than setting up capture cards or using the Xbox DVR, which is a multi-step process and doesn’t do 60fps video anyway. But until I can be sure KI works well with stuff like OBS, I can’t really use it for this purpose, you know?
Oh I remember, I was there too. But Steam’s launch was just crappy and we all can say “yeah, teething problems”, but not for a second Steam was restrictive of anything, you could always mod, use overlays, etc. The issue that Steam has grown to almost monopolistic status is not Steam’s fault but all of the other store fronts (or lack thereof) for not providing a simple to use and cheap service. I know they say Steam’s customer service is terrible, but thankfully I have not needed…ever. And now there is refunds.
If the Windows Store launch was just crappy but not restrictive as it is, we would not have this discussion.
Exactly @DarkMage72, this is the core reason why it’s being talked about and why I’m worried about the future of KI on PC: Steam has never required the core of a game to work off of a specific framework such as UWP. Steam games have always been able to run on whatever they want; DirectX, OpenGL, etc. When you have a store that requires the game to be built off of a certain framework, and that framework includes limitations that can affect the enjoyment of the game, that’s where the issues come in. The fear I have is this:
MS is attempting something new in regards to AAA games with the Windows Store. They have had the Windows Store ever since Windows 8 released, and it’s been used to have the same apps and light games be compatible across all Windows devices such as PC’s, tablets, phones, etc. They are now trying to have this same approach with how AAA games are formatted, and that means that developers will have to code their games specifically for this platform to make it work (compared to Steam where it just launches an EXE and that’s pretty much it).
Microsoft is going to lead off with their exclusives like Rise of the Tomb Raider, Gears of War, and I’m assuming Killer Instinct. I honestly can’t see 3rd party developers spending the time and resources towards coding their game for a platform that isn’t all that popular or flexible, so I predict that we will only see these few Microsoft-based games on this platform. If it is not successful, how long do you think MS will support it? How long until they call it quits and leave those PC titles to die on their own? Look at what happened with SF4 on PC; that was originally a Games for Windows title, and when that got canned Capcom had to work even harder at integrating the Steam matchmaking and online services with their game. With how integral MS has been towards the development of KI (they own Rare, they own the rights to KI), I seriously doubt that a similar conversion would happen.
This doesn’t even bring up the issue of cross-platform play as SF4 didn’t have that, so if support for Windows Store games ends, what will happen to those who invested into KI on PC and eventually lose support to play online?
People like Phil Spencer say they are more committed to PC as a platform and they are putting more resources into it than they ever have…but like a lot of things MS has been doing these past several years, they don’t have the right approach to it, and that has caused a tremendous amount of backlash. You can say “this will be fixed” and “we are committed” as much as you want, but the hard truth is that MS’s track record has been pretty bad for a pretty good while now, and THAT is why I’m bringing my fears and concerns up here. I appreciate all the replies here and even moreso appreciate the constructive discussion on the matter as I assumed the KI community was capable of. I just want to be able to play KI finally on the platform of my choice without having to buy a $3-400 box + $200 fight stick just to play KI (I still have the original Madcatz TE stick that launched with SF4, never had a reason to replace it).
If you want a good understanding about how UMP affects modern games, this is a great article written by the modder that created the DSFix mod for Dark Souls for PC:
It’s a great read if you care to see what kinds of limitations will be present and how hard it would be for Microsoft to change how the entire UWP framework works to fix these limitations.
As someone who uses steam a lot, I have something like 130 games in my library ■■■■■ you steam sales!) I can say the platform has been a work in progress for a long time and it still has some issues here and there. As a systems administrator by profession I’m amazed at how often their servers go down without notice.
That said I’m not going to defend EA’s Origin or Windows Store, in general they all have their flaws and I can’t say any of them are truly polished and bug free. I do think a major component to the S3 release is crossplay and crossbuy and I have to imagine that the game being in the windows store and inherently linked to your live account makes both functions easier to accomplish.
I just looked up my Steam profile; 228 games, and my account was created September 19, 2003. I was there just about at the very beginning of Steam’s creation and, while there were a lot of issues initially, it’s the goto platform for buying digital games now. Before then, you just buy a game, install it, and it’s its own separate application not tied to anything except the activation code that came in the box. Steam was seen as both convenient and locking games down where they were all tied to Steam as a platform instead of being independent and free to install without an internet connection. As time went on, people became less and less concerned about the locked-down aspect and embraced the convenience factor of what Steam offers.
Now Microsoft is trying to push it to a whole new level where the games themselves are crafted in their own specific way. I feel this has to be where the line is drawn as with Steam, it was only how you purchased the game that was changed. This changes how the game is made and what features/functions are available. I can’t agree with that.
It all depends on how this MS conference at the end of March and how exactly all of this works. Admittedly, a lot of this is prediction and assumption based on the releases we’ve seen from Windows Store so far, and the conflicting things that MS and the devs have said. We have to wait and see, and I’m afraid that KI won’t get the chance to wait and see before it’s already written off as a horrible Windows Store port.
I’ll say this again: It is not about whether it is on Steam or not, it is about whether KI ONLY lives on the Windows Store and whether or not the UWP framework will hinder the experience of playing KI on PC.
It is an interesting topic. It is obvious that MS wants to be a Steam’s comptetitor, especially now, when Valve are making moves to make gaming less Windows-dependent. At first, I didn’t know how are they going to do it, since their store would only host first-party titles and games sponsored by MS like RotTR. That’s not really a competition, since most of those games would be available in the Store only, meaning that the consumer would have no choice as to where to buy it.
However, after reading some articles and what others think, I see that they have chosen another vector of attack. What if they are trying to bring 3rd party titles to their platform? Essentially, developing for UWP greatly reduces your efforts, because this build would work for Win 10 and Xbox One both. Will that be enough to make some developers eventually switch over from Steam to the Store? They will probably promote this platform as hard as they can at GDC. I think it is possible for some time we will see some games coming out in both flavours like RotTR, but eventually only one will be left standing. Right now Steam is a lot better for the consumers, but Microsoft boasts easier development, which is better for the devs. Obviously, unless payrolled by MS, nobody would abandon Steam entirely right now because its user base is vast and superior to the number of people that use the Store. But in a few years? We will see, I guess.
As far as I understand, both Xbox One and PS4 are based off of an x86 architecture and therefore are already pretty easy for devs to port from one to another. The main limiting factor is the slow hardware of the consoles not being able to keep up with current PCs (both PS4 and Xbox One use AMD APUs for both CPU & GPU).
MS is attempting to make things even easier if you only want to drink the MS kool-aid and develop with UWP to have it work just about natively between MS devices. Being that it only takes what I assume is just a bit more work to tune your game graphically to run decently on the two major consoles instead of coding for one company with a proprietary framework, I can’t imagine devs wanting to limit themselves when making a major title. I’m no dev by any means, so this is just my opinion and how I see it with the info I have.
And I hate to bring this up too, but IG doesn’t seem to have the best track record on PC either. I’m not even referring to the Arkam Knight debacle which I blame Warner Bros for personally, I’m talking about simple things like Divekick not even being able to set your resolution properly on PC when it launched. If UWP makes it easier for them to make a game that is at least reliable on PC, then great! If they can QUICKLY and PROPERLY address the Vsync issue I mentioned before, then I will buy KI on PC with all seasons/DLC and such as I want to play this game and get good at it.
There is no begging here (well, maybe except for the title lol). What I’m trying to do is present the possible issues with the PC version that could make it unplayable/not worth playing. If you never voice your concerns, they will never hear you and never fix any of the issues that come out, so having the attitude that someone should not complain/voice concern is, to me, the worst attitude to have unless you want games and the platforms they are played on to progressively get worse.
It’s the only reliable way to get cross-play and cross-buy to work. The problems you have with the Win10 store games are problems that have been addressed and are in the process of being fixed. It would have been nice if KI was also available via other means, but it’s not that big a deal and at this point is pretty much set in stone.
I don’t think there is a ton of “begging” going on here. Some people might say “release it on Steam or I won’t buy it”, but most of us aren’t like that.
We just want whatever they release to not be hampered by a bunch of odd problems that affect how we use the program.
Right. As someone else said “It does not need to be Steam; it needs to not suck”. By not sucking we mean to be as open and moddable as any Win32 app, overlays are allowed, full support for SLI/Crossfire, true full screen supported, full support if any controller, Vsync can be disabled, etc.
I am not an Xbox fanboy and I don’t want to turn this into that thread, but it is worth mentioning that people can play and enjoy the game in Xbox without access to .exe files, mods the ability to adjust the graphics at all (what’s the status of V-sync on X1? I don’t see any screen tearing…) and certainly without downloading it to Steam. So…
The point I’m making is that the game is still very playable without these things. I understand why it’s not desirable to have it restricted in comparison to other games, but aren’t we exaggerating a bit?
But if SF4 were like that I wouldn’t be able to use my Final Fight Cody mod…or Optimus Prime Ryu…& my youngest son loves playing as Dudley now because of the mod to make him look like Mario.
I know it’s not something everybody cares about, but others do. Personally I’d like to see an Iron Man Fulgore, maybe a Ryu Hyabusa Jago…Laura Croft Orchid…heck KI2 Orchid…DeadPool Cinder, Juggernaut Aganos, He-man Tusk…the list just goes on & on.
You would be surprised. Many games buried ages ago on consoles are thriving on PC thanks to the mods. [quote=“EnemyAI, post:39, topic:5753”]
Exactly, people should not be messing with game files to begin with.
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This is up to the user to decide what he can or can’t do on his computer with files on his hard drive. It always was.
