https://twitter.com/LLPaulB/status/761603353184829440
What do you guys think? Agree / Disagree? Let me know!
Remember, this is just my opinion.
9 Likes
My goodness Sadira sure has fallen. 
just a quick question, does NO mean that those characters aren’t placed in the list or is it the bottom tier? personally, I would swap thunder’s place with shago, just my opinion.
I dont know nothing about ARIA so i dont know if she belongs there. I would put Glacius and Maya in the “B” tier. Sabrewulf in the tier “A”.
I agree with everything else. Eyedol probably is in tier “A” or “S”.
It basically means “not fit for competition.” Too many losing match-ups.
Aria in the S tier? Huh. Never really hear a lot of people talk about her in that regard. She’s a good character, for sure. But that good? I guess I have no problem with it.
A tier looks about right. Same goes for B. Nothing much to say there.
C tier… Man, seeing Wulf, Sadira and Kan Ra in C tier makes me sad though. They’ve been so good at times. Granted, that’s really just my preference toward those characters talking. I really hope that Wulf gets a few more toys to play with going forward, even if the utility in them isn’t outstanding, just having more options to confuse opponents with would probably bump him up to B tier alone.
I’d also love to see Sadira get another tool or two in the air to really drive home that it’s her space. Kan Ra’s such a unique character, I’m honestly not sure what they could do to help him without giving him back some of the craziness he had before.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Glacius get something else, but not quite sure what. Orchid already has a lot going on, so not sure what could improve her. I think she’s a fun character, but she still kind of does a little of everything while excelling at nothing in particular. At least in my opinion.
Actually, I think I agree with a vast majority of this. Nothing really jumps out at me as strange or incorrect.
The low tier is what I would’ve guessed. I wouldn’t mind seeing Mira’s blood magic damage adjusted slightly so she’s not killing herself quite as much to damage the opponent. I get the intention of the character 100%, but again, just a small adjustment. Otherwise she’s an incredibly fun character to use. I do think that Kim Wu, Raam and Aganos could use some help.
Great tier list, Paul! Nice graphic on it to, btw.
Interesting list. I’m somewhat new to KI so I don’t really know all the characters too in depth yet. I’d be curious to know how you choose to define the tier levels, and maybe why you put the characters in their respective tier. If you have the time, that is, I know it’s a lot to ask. Thanks.
2 Likes
Hm, a few questions:
A lot of people seem to think Thunder is strong – like, firmly top 5. What motivates you to put him a little lower?
Are you putting any time into Riptor again now that she’s more viable?
A broader question: having put some thought into all of this, what changes would you make to the cast to improve the balance of the game? In particular, what changes do you think characters you’ve put time into, such as Wulf and Mira, need in order to contend?
I wonder what you took into account when analizing each character for the list (MUs, tools, etc?).
I really can’t say about Aria being that good. I’ve face some good Arias with what you put as “low tiers” and my results weren’t that bad.
Why Orchid is so low tier? She has good tools, good speed and some nice pressure and setups with grenades. I honestly thougth she was better.
Riptor over Sabrewulf? Wulf has better normals (I’m not counting Riptors j.HP and HK) and true she has nice mix up tools too, but I found they would be even closer and maybe Wulf would do better. Anyway, the proyectile does give Riptor an advantage Wulf does not have.
Shadow Jago has too much gimmicky mix ups but it’s true that he’s negative in many things he does while Thunder has way better damage and safer mixups. Not sure about that either.
As a rather successful Aganos main myself, I’m rather curious - why do you think he’s not fit for competition?
I think he more than is (and, IMO, should be firmly planted in B or even A tier).
In my own personal matchup experience, Aganos beats:
ARIA
Gargos
Jago
Shadow Jago
Cinder
Omen
Rash
Glacius
Sabrewulf
TJ Combo
Tusk
Orchid
Kim Wu
Raam
Eyedol
…and is equal to:
Arbiter
Spinal
Hisako
Thunder
Sadira
Kan Ra
Maya
himself
…and loses to:
Fulgore
Riptor
1 Like
That’s not how tier lists work.
Characters in “B” don’t automatically beat characters in “C” tier. What it means is that those characters have more favorable and/or even matchups than losing matchups.
Hope that clears it up.
3 Likes
Agree with most of it, except for a few notable changes I’d make:
I’d probably change S tier’s name to A+.
I’d raise Omen to the A+ tier, next to the other three. He has too many tools and too good of a neutral game, and some of the best pressure in the game (arguably strongest corner pressure). He’s low damage, but gets tons of meter from any ender as well as awesome setups. His shadow form is borderline OP, IMO.
I’d raise thunder to A tier, he’s better than ever, ridiculous damage, really good mobility options, great vortex game with command grab and deep crossup, and shadow call of the earth speaks for itself xD
I’d lower Gargos to B tier. His defense is too lacking to compete with the A tier characters, IMO, and his neutral can get run over easily in a lot of MU’s, I feel.
I’d definitely raise Glacius, wulf and Orchid to B tier.
I’d rename C tier into B-.
And I strongly disagree with the No tier. Strongly. I’d put Mira and RAAM into B tier, and Aganos and Kim into B-.
5 Likes
I’m curious as to why you put Shadow Jago and Spinal in A tier and Mira in C tier.
This is interesting, i didn’t fought lots of aganos but i never lost a match to one yet with RAAM. Would you mind in share a video?
It’s all about the # of winning, losing, even matchups. Tally those up, with your own opinion, I’d love to see where they land.
Sadly, I don’t have 1 to share, but I probably don’t need to since Aganos can outzone Raam easily with his payload assault chunks and reach (and ironically, his stomp) and ruin him through walls if he tries to charge in.
I see, yeah all aganos I’ve encountered tried to rely on their chunk shields, but they are useless against grabs/stomps.
It’s all about number of winning, losing, even matchups. That’s why Thunder is where he is.
I’m not playing Riptor at all. Her S3 game plan bores me.
Wulf needs 3 versions of all his linkers, like the rest of the cast. He also needs a damage buff. I’d personally scrap feral cancel altogether to get his old damage back or give him 10-15% damage buff in instinct again. Overhead should be faster. Right now it’s only 1 frame faster than Fulgore’s (which is special cancellable).
Mira’s health expenditure needs to be reduce on her valuable moves, particularly during combo. This is a tough one, but if she gets broken maybe she should have her health refunded with a subtraction relative to the amount of real (not potential) damage dealt. Not sure about that.
I keep seeing Raam is low tier and I still don’t believe it, the character just takes alot more matchup knowledge and can’t go ham, just because he requires a bit more honesty doesn’t mean he’s garbos.
Also no way Mira is bottom, she is just the hardest character in the game to master at a competitive level due to her health management/amount of tools.
Glacius is in no way c tier, that character is at least A, also there are way too many tiers there should only be S, A and B for this game as its quite balanced for the most part due to the system mechanics. Aganos also deserves a bump that character is def stronger than No.