Alotta times though they come off as either forced and not sincere. Sounds very token to me.
My point being, it’s all just a bunch PR nonsense.
Wokeism and political correctness too, right?
Kind of unlikely, especially considering this is going to be set in the past.
Yeah I don’t think he can erase people from time entirely? If Kronika had the power to do that, she never would’ve put Fujin, Shang Tsung and Nightwolf in the void to begin with.
Now… Why Liu Kang wouldn’t just put Shang Tsung, Shao Kahn, Quan Chi, Shinnok and any other “evil” character in the void as well? I have no idea. Maybe he simply acknowledges that there will always be evil in the world and that removing anyone that’s evil is a slippery slope? Or maybe it’s a “don’t pull at the thread” kind of a deal lol.
It can be, sure. But there’s this strange disconnect between devs making a character a certain way and people assuming it’s part of some “agenda” or that this certain way is all the character is, when it’s simply intended to be part of who they are.
I mean, we don’t look at white characters or Asian characters this way. No one says “quota” when another monster makes it into the game. I don’t believe that needs to be the case with LGBTQ+ characters either.
The alternative is simply some people never seeing parts of themselves in something, and why do that? Sure, not everyone needs to always see themselves in everything. That’s fine. That’s their prerogative. But we all live on this planet. It’s not the worst thing to have characters that reflect more of the audience that enjoys this game.
Mileena and Tanya were together in Mileena’s MK11 ending. Are they now token lesbians? Does anyone look at that situation as forced or not sincere? Did you see a lot of people talk about Mileena in the MK1 reveal as “that token lesbien?”
The ending was just kinda “there” and that was it. Of course, that was just my reaction and this is all highly subjective. If you thought it was forced, that’s fine. But honestly, it seems like the more we as a society see something, the less token it becomes, and we stop worrying whether something is forced, insincere, an agenda, etc.
Sure, you can find some cringy stuff if you go back to the 80’s or 90’s when you talk about race or sexuality in all forms of media, but that’s the struggle you go through to get to where we are today, which is FAR from perfect, but at least somewhat better than it was back then. It’s all kind of inevitable stuff that simply comes with being part of an advancing, progressing culture.
Why do you think it’s PR nonsense for the devs to want more of their audience to see some of themselves in their roster? I mean, the studio itself undoubtedly has a variety of representation. You think none of them want to see at least slightly more of themselves in the game they’re making?
Like, do you think it’s good PR to do this? Sure, some in the media will notice it, some won’t, some in the audience will appreciate it and others won’t. It’s not like there’s some big net positive for them in doing this. I dunno, maybe you’re seeing something I’m not.
What’s your point? You can have LGBTQ+ characters in a game without it being “woke,” and what does political correctness even have to do with this? You’re literally just saying buzzwords.
Well, it’s starting to look less and less like that’s the case. I believe people found a satellite dish in a still image of the area Sub Zero and Scorpion were in the trailer. There also appears to be electric lighting as well in that area, or at least the lights in that same scene would indicate as such.
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Thank you! I kept going back and forth on weather or not I should actually defend myself here but you made all the points I was going to so well.
Trans people aren’t only a “modern” thing. People have been feeling like they don’t 100% fit the gender binary for as long as that binary has existed. Take a look if you wanna learn.
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Not really. The concept of transgender itself is quite modern and to a certain extent doesn’t really apply to ancient cultures for a variety of reasons. While there may have been certain practices and/or circumstances where an individual would assume the role of being “male”/“female” for a given scenario, be it religious/cultural practices/ceremonies, socio-political, perhaps economical factors, it’s not really applicable, nor is it the same as an individual feeling discomfort with their own body/gender.
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But why focus soo much on the gender? Let character’s stand from their own merits, without needing this obsession on what they “do” or “don’t” identify as, all just for some internet brownie points.
Just make good characters. Period.
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I don’t know that it’s overly necessary or even relevant to assume motivation when speaking about the result of a person being trans in this particular conversation though. The fact is that they have existed in some form or another since ancient times. Regardless, I don’t know that it’s overly realistic to assume that feeling discomfort with one’s body or gender is a modern thing. I’m sure there are arguments on both sides for that, but I think it’s fairly easy to find examples that predate what we’d consider modern times.
I’m trying to understand this. Who is focusing so much on gender if the devs are simply making a character that they believe is good and also happens to be trans? Like, what’s the big deal?
As far as internet brownie points goes, isn’t the whole point of making a game to sell it? It’s why they have guests, after all. If putting a trans character in the game helps get more people to play it, then why is that not okay if having guests is okay, especially if the benefits to it include more devs seeing themselves in the game they’re making and more trans players getting someone to use that they might like to identify with as well?
What exactly are the downsides here?
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Just because some things seemed similar in the past to what we have now does not mean it is something that can be equated, especially based on our current systems and values. It’s not realistic to assume that the motivations and mindsets of a people thousands of years ago are the same as our own, including those of transgendered people today.
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What Im saying is alot if times it just feels very tacked on. Apparently thats considered taboo for me to say, but I’m just coming at this from an honest opinion.
I mean, this is Mortal Kombat. EVERYONE and their mother has already played these games in some shape or form over the years. Maybe an overestimate, but the point Im trying to make its a brand that is hard to ignore regardless of orientation.
If someone is trans, well… whats really stopping them from playing the games as they are right now? They already have characters who’ve gone through a perminant transformations within the lore itself, like Noob, Scorpion, Kabal, The Cyber Lin Kuei, or the revanants. So doesnt that count?
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Fair enough, but my question is why does the motivation matter when the result is still the same? Also, do you think it’s a logically safe assumption that people feeling discomfort in their body is a new / modern phenomenon? If so, what leads you to believe that?
Yeah it’s all good man. All I asked for was your honest opinion. I’m not trying to shout you down or anything. I’m just trying to understand where you’re coming from, and if I ultimately disagree with you after understanding, that’s fine. I’m not here to change your mind. We’re all just asserting our opinions here.
Why would a person being trans in a game be tacked on if it’s not tacked on for people in real life? It’s who they are. If MK can have heteronormative romances, relationships, and a character like Kung Jin can be gay and characters like Mileena and Tanya can be lesbians, what makes you believe that a character being trans is a bridge too far somehow?
I mean, I keep coming back to this question, but why does it matter to you? If people that are not you maybe get someone they feel they can identify with, does that somehow detract from your enjoyment of the game? Who’s being hurt here? If the answer is no one, then I’m not sure what the issue is. Feel free to enlighten me though. No problem.
Oh yeah, MK does really well sales-wise, no doubt, with each game outselling the last. But you’re kinda making my point here. It is a brand that is hard to ignore regardless of orientation, which logically means that people of all sexual orientations play Mortal Kombat. So if your question is “why make a character they can identify with when they haven’t had one before,” I suppose my answer would be “why not?”
Why not make a character that’s trans and that’s just part of who they are and it doesn’t have to be some big, giant show where a whole chapter is dedicated to this new character teaching Shao Kahn to respect people that are different from him or whatever lol. It’s just, ya know, here’s a character and as part of their backstory… Yadda yadda yadda. Maybe it affects their personality a little bit. Again, I don’t see what the issue is.
Nothing’s stopping them from playing. Maybe some trans gamers that didn’t play the game before might be a few percentage points more intrigued about trying it, or maybe they won’t.
Now, I don’t know that a human becoming a wraith, a hellspawn, a burn victim, a robot or a revenant is the same as trans given that trans isn’t short for “transformation,” but rather “transgender,” but I suppose you never know. Maybe some people do see a bit of themselves in some of those characters. Still, maybe it would help some connect to the game even more if they had a character that was a bit more overtly like them as opposed to the more metaphorical characters here. Who knows though.
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I haven’t been speaking about a lot of this because i’m sick and don’t really have a lot of energy, but while I love the Cyber Ninjas I don’t see myself or my journey in characters who were forced by a shadowy organization into giving up their humanity. Or in someone dying and being turned into a vengeful wraith. Neither of those are really reflective of a trans person like me who didn’t feel comfortable in the social roll/body they were assigned at birth and sought to change it themselves. Honestly saying trans people should be able to identify with the factory that tears our peoples brains and puts them into robot bodies is kind of hurtful.
Now back to the shadows while I nurse my stomach cramps.
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But heres what I mean by those ecomparrisons…
BiHan identified as Lin Kuei, he was changed into Noob Saibot, which he now prefers to opposed to his past self.
Scorpion identified as Hanzo Hasashi, only becoming Scorpion against his own accord, only for him to return to his previous self later in the timeline.
Kabal identified as an officer of the law, but due to unfortunate circumstances, he now lives a new life and has to deal with the cards he’s been dealt with.
“Burnvictims” “wraiths, demons” aside, are those stories not relatable to someone who changed gender and preferred their new self? Or someone who did change roles only to regret it later on in life and decided to revert to their previous self?
Symbolism is how I interpret it.
Maybe I’m not articulating my point exactly well, but it’s the best I can sum it up.
I’m not being “harmed” by them adding it. Just make cool characters, that’s literally all I’m saying lol. Should not be this complicated.
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Speaking as someone who IS transgender, which it feels like you’re forgetting you’re talking to, no it’s really not. They’re just not comparable conditions or states of mind. I’m sorry.
Seems we’re at an impass then
But it isn’t the same. That’s the point. Context matters, and to equate the meaning of something done centuries ago by a people whose mindset and culture are so fundamentally different from our own with our own views from today on their symbolic meanings is nonsensical, as it would result in misinformation and faulty understandings at best, and at worst a complete distortion. While certainly gender should be interrogated and analyzed, especially in terms of perceived gender roles, the ways in which “masculine”/“feminine” traits are characterized and valued in the historical and socio-political context, world religions, etc, it should not come at the expense of facts.
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Topics like this is why I stay off of Twitter.
Well, look at Kung Jin as he was officially confirmed to be gay and overall a homosexual character in Mortal Kombat X.
It’s all good, man. KL is just trying to explain their point of view and maybe give you some insight into their view of things. Nothing wrong with assimilating some new information. Also, KL is one person, maybe there are other trans people that would agree with some of your assessments here. Who knows. We’re all just having a conversation.
I hear you. That makes sense. I just think from the brief history that I’ve read, that trans people have existed for a long time in one way or another, and that even if the links between past and present aren’t on a 1:1 scale in terms of motivations, that people have ultimately become the path that they feel is the accurate one for them. If that’s due to religion or some other reason, that’s still them believing in their soul that this is who they are and that’s the connection between past and present.
If you disagree, that’s fine. I just don’t think the idea of trans people on any level, even what we’re talking about in terms of modern society, wouldn’t have existed at SOME point in the past. To me, it’s like believing that gay people didn’t exist until the 1980’s when we know that’s not the case.
Don’t worry about it, man. Maybe we all just get back on track here and talk some MK 
I’m still kinda bummed that it’s likely not going to be at the Sony Showcase today. Some of the insiders seemed to indicate that Sony has the marketing rights for it, so hopefully we get some other kind of small trailer, but it seems doubtful. We’ll see…
At least we get the gameplay reveal in a few weeks at Summer Games Fest! Might be the only thing there worth seeing given how much Geoff’s events tend to disappoint (IMO), but maybe not.
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Oddly enough I didnt mind Kung Jin’s inclusion in MKX, if anything I was shocked they left him off the roster for MK11, considering his bo staff/bow & arrow gameplay was actually pretty fun, plus we could’ve gotten a chapter with him engaging against Revanant Kung Lao. Something we never got in MKX, aside from a few Vs Mode intros.
That, and I didnt like how he went from Lao’s cousin to his nephew all the sudden. Felt like one of the writters got the two mixed up. Its a small thing, but inconsistencies like that were a dime a dozen in MK11, time travel or not.
Im just curious how the Kameo system is gonna work out. Like “how over powered are some assits compared to others”, “will they replace variations completely”, "or if they can be disabled all together for standard play. "
I know Shang Tsung’s a pre order bonus, but what if they also made a Kameo variant that changes your character into the opponents? Something wild like Scorpion morphing into Lui Kang just for a few seconds. Like how crazy are they gonna take it.
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