Ya’ll can wait for Spawn. I’m just saying.
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When did they use Kiba?
i think one reason could be is that some feel they could’ve used those slots for missing characters.
They said on the kast that his spirit wolf is Kiba from Defenders of the Realm. Not sure if the moves list backs it up or not though.
So. What iconic kills do you think will make up Joker, Spawn, and Terminator’s fatalities?
If memory serves me right, I remember a lot more “Let’s face it, Eyedol’s not coming” threads than pro-Eyedol ones. (Edit:Come to think of it, there were a lot of people would bash Eyedol simply because it was the popular way to promote their own ideas for a new character) Either way, everyone got played on that front, considering Isgreen said they weren’t NOT going to add him.
Anyway, the Kombat pack looks pretty cool. The Joker’s face seems a bit weird. I don’t know…he just looks too…normal…maybe even a bit baby-faced. I suppose I’ve gotten used to his looks from Arkham and Injustice where he has a more angular, bordering on stretched face. It just seems kinda odd that the first thing I focused on when I saw him was how round his cheeks are.
And I honestly was not expecting the Terminator to look so much like Arnold!! I thought for sure they were either going to have to go full on bot or use a more generic human design for it. That was a pleasant surprise.
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And as history as proven with countless games, including MK itself, there was no guarantee that they were going to bring all the characters back in the first place. Even referring to Tekken 7 again, there was no chance of Zafina returning unless we got a third season, and the actual chance of that happening was extremely low to begin with. Basically Zafina fans got super lucky, as will the fans of whatever legacy character will also return in Season 3 (the fourth character will most likely be a guest, since a new stage is confirmed with their release date).
So either way, the logic of “Guests take slots from legacies!” has proven to be mostly false time and time again. Also keep in mind SFV has no guest characters, and yet is still missing a lot of favorites (took 3 seasons to get Sagat back, 4 seasons for E.Honda, etc.).
Gun, gun, and more gun.
Seriously though, I expect at least Terminator to use guns for at least one of his fatalities. Joker probably uses Joker gas or the crowbar, Spawn uses his chains or cape. This is assuming they don’t make new stuff for Joker too.
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I think the reaosn is that they never considered what the slot could be for.
For instance, I would be making a sequal to a fighting game and considered bringing back a character from a previous installment or adding in a guest.
though what makes SFV’s case unique is that they decided to add new characters into the seasons of Street Fighter as well.
With mixed results: F.A.N.G. and Abigail were trashed, Menat is loved by some but hated by others who wanted Rose to come back, Falke seemed good until people actually played her, and even with Lucia people are like “Should’ve been in SF6 instead” (and no one remembers Necalli). The only newcomer people truly cared for was G, and that’s because he was made to resemble Q in some ways (even having a Q-styled alt costume).
And in MK’s case, they killed off so many characters in previous games that it was clear they wanted to try a “new generation” angle with most of the cast, especially in MKX. Of course MK11 has basically thrown a million wrenches into that formula, since they actually brought back characters killed in older games via time warp (Skarlet, Baraka, Shao Khan, etc.), so in the eyes of The Many they feel literally everyone should come back. But they said the same about SF and Tekken for years, and look what happened there.
Personally I don’t mind if they bring back dead or forgotten characters as DLC (make them non-canon even, I don’t care), but I won’t lose sleep if they don’t return. As long as they aren’t gameplay clones, in which case I say good riddance to them.
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Also on the topic of the Kombat Pass, anyone feel it’ll be literal years before we get a complete edition with all the DLC? I heard somewhere NRS wanted to support this game for longer than previous titles, and with Spawn releasing in March 2020 I half expect them to announce another Kombat Pass like they did with MKX. Maybe I should do what I did with Injustice 2 and buy the Premium Edition on a sale. Only a matter of time before that bundle drops to $50-$60 for some big sale or something (hopefully not a sale exclusive to Gold/PS Plus users this time).
People keep using the word and the concept of “slot” when they talk about guest characters. The idea that there’s so many seats on the plane and if you let a guest character on board that excludes someone else is just… not correct. They are making guest characters because they do something that old roster characters don’t do - get a DIFFERENT audience looking at the game.
People don’t have to love guest characters. That’s fine. But it’s not correct to say they are taking up a slot that otherwise would be filled by other characters. Think of them as additional characters and it will be both more accurate and better for your mental health.
And just for the sake of argument, we can all come up with things we would want to do differently for just about every game. But do people really believe that replacing the terminator or spawn with Ashrah and Reptile makes sense from a marketing stand point?
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I get where your coming from, but that doesn’t mean that they will keep that entire audience for future installments.
I personally don’t mind having one guest character in a fighting game but three is abit much. Now MK and Soul Calibur established themselves enough for people to recognize the games own characters. Because of that, they could get away with more than one guest and still maintain their own identities rather than being seen as “that game with famous character in it” and while SCIII didn’t do as well because it ended up being a PS2 exclusive, it seems like the other game still didn’t make an impact as SC-II did because of Link on the game cube version. But for a new fighting game franchise, they should focus on having their own roster get recognized before they even consider adding in guests.
Now that scenario I mentioned before isn’t always likely to happen. In fact one of my brother’s friends got into into KI thanks to General RAAM, but took a liking to Cinder. If a guest character manages to keep an audience ready for future installments, then good, the guest character fulfilled their purposes. I’m not saying the scenario I mentioned isn’t always the primary one. But we can’t assume that you will keep that audience for future installments, sense guest characters are always a one time deal.
But which MK character would get added to the kombat pack if they didn’t go with guests characters?
That’s the question I was asking over whether or not guests take up slots.
I’m just glad that Joker looks clean and doesn’t look like he just came out of a dumpster like in Injustice 2.
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No offense but so what? If they sell them the game now that’s great. And they are more likely to become fans than if they never tried the game at all. And if you are such a hardcore MK fan that you are rooting for Ashrah and Reptile to come back, aren’t you likely to buy the game anyway?
I think there’s pretty ample evidence that guest characters are good for fighting games - otherwise everyone wouldn’t be doing it.
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No taken, but in case you didn’t read my other post, I never said adding guests was a bad idea. I think you misunderstood me there. Maybe the game will be able to keep most of that audience, you may never know. If they do keep a majority of that audience then they still fulfilled their purpose. I love the series, but that doesn’t mean you have to agree with every decision they make. But one must always be constructive and respectful when they express what they didn’t like about that decision.
Helping a current installment sell is important, but you’d still want to keep in mind of the longevity of the franchise as well.
I just think adding in wanted characters form previous installments should not be overlooked. You and I seem to be more concerned about different things on this scenario. A now vs later scenario is what you and I seem to be talking about when adding guest characters and gathering in an audience.
In fact I had optimism about Reptile being a in as DLC which is why I bought MK11. The scenario doesn’t seem likely now, but things may change. Heck Bamco announced season 2 for SC-VI and while Haomaru getting in does have me concerned about Aeon, Rock, and Hwang (or Yun-seong), I still think they still have a chance. so my optimism isn’t lost for that.
As a long time fan of Mortal Kombat, I understand the decision they made, I still don’t have to like it though.
The face is weird though, like they tried to have the small facial structure from older versions of Joker (I think Batman TAS Joker was one of those versions) but ended up in babyface territory. Unless the goal was to emulate a specific actor’s face, I am not sure how they ended up with what we got.
Strange thing is we are only getting 4 characters, where the rumors said 6 (and one is a guest, which was supposedly not known at the time). Also I would prefer Hwang, Yun-Seong always felt like a bad copy in my eyes (also he didn’t exist until SC4, whereas Hwang was there since the old games).
I don’t disagree with this in terms of sales dollars and even fans. There are undoubtedly people that will buy MK11 now that didn’t before because Arnold, Spawn or the Joker are in the game. It’s also more media exposure for the game than one would usually see than if NRS announced that Smoke, Cyrax and Havik were in the game. So I think that from a logical perspective, it absolutely makes sense for WB and NRS to have guests.
As an MK player though, who preordered MK11 as soon as preorders went up and also paid $30 for the first kombat pack sight unseen, I still can’t help but be bummed that I paid $30 and I’m only getting 3 MK characters out of it.
Now, I know what you’re going to say… That’s on me. You’re absolutely right. I could’ve waited until I knew which characters would be in. I could’ve purchased Shang Tsung and Nightwolf by themselves and then judged for myself once the trailer hit yesterday to see if buying the KP was worth my money. That’s absolutely true.
Again, from the standpoint of logic and reason, I fully recognize that I don’t have a legitimate gripe against NRS or WB. All I can say is that for me, a long time Mortal Kombat player, I want Mortal Kombat characters, regardless of whether they’re trilogy, 3D era, obscure characters or even brand new characters like what SFV has done.
Some of them likely won’t even be to my liking. We all have preferences. If I had my choice, I never would’ve chosen Nightwolf or Sindel. I also wouldn’t choose Sheeva for KP2. But I’d still take them over Ash, who I couldn’t care less about, or Joker, who seems entirely unnecessary. Of course, I recognize the fact that there are fans that love those characters, both the MK characters and the guests I just mentioned. So it’s all about preference.
I get why NRS and WB are doing what they’re doing, that doesn’t mean that I have to like it as a fan. I don’t feel I’m owed anything at all. I don’t feel entitled to anything. But as someone that bought a Mortal Kombat DLC pack, I’d like to see more than three MK characters for the amount of money I spent. I don’t feel the slightest bit wronged or anything like that. I just think it kinda sucks that this is what we wound up with.
I’ll still play, of course. I even like these guests as characters, which is a relief for me since I hated the horror characters in MKX, but it still bums me out that with so many MK characters that could be in the game, we have guests instead.
As for the whole “no one is taking anyone’s ‘slot’ thing,” I might disagree slightly in this specific case. They were absolutely going to have DLC no matter what in this game. They were also likely to have more DLC in this game then in past games, which has been NRS’ pattern dating back to 2011.
So I don’t think that if Spawn, Joker and T-800 are out, that NRS would only release a 3 character pack. I don’t know for certain, of course, but I’d have to think that they still would’ve had four or even six characters as DLC and given how much money this game’s made already, I’d have to think that the DLC would’ve done well.
Would Shang Tsung, Nightwolf, Sindel, Reptile, Smoke and Takeda done as well as Shang Tsung, Nightwolf, Sindel, Spawn, T-800 and Joker? Absolutely not. But if money is the only factor, then why not just have all guests? I think there’s a balance to be kept here between those that just want MK characters and those that don’t like these guests versus those that like guests, those that like these guests, and those that don’t mind either way.
I don’t think 3 MK characters and 3 guests is a great balance. Others will disagree with that though. No problem. Again, it’s just personal preference.
Well, it’s possible that this Joker’s face is a little early / undercooked. We saw that when D’vorah was first shown and how much better she looked later. I believe we also saw that with Tanya in MKX. So I don’t know if we should necessarily read tooooo much in to it quite yet, though I don’t think it’s the worst thing in the world for NRS to hear fans on this if they weren’t planning on making any changes. Not sure what they can do about it at this point, but if they can, that’s probably for the best.
I think Joker’s face looks off as well. Part of me wonders if he has a outfit/face that looks more like the Joker in the new movie as an alt, in which case I don’t think having the normal Joker we’ve seen lately, who’s much skinnier and more gaunt in games would really work. Who knows.
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That’s what I was talking about, and why I felt pretty bummed about it too. I know why they added them in, but I don’t agree with the decision.
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Yeah that’s probably true, and it’s fine. But if you are concerned about franchise longevity, one of my biggest concerns is how many people expect every game in a series to bring back all of the characters previously
This seems pretty distorted. You are getting 6 playable MK 11 characters. It will sound harsh, and I don’t mean it that way, but if you want to be sure you like the characters then don’t buy the pack until the characters are announced. If you start doing this kind of negative math I think it leads to a downward spiral. I have played maybe 5-6 of the main roster characters? So I paid $60 for 6 characters? Or is it just that I bought the whole game and am playing the parts that I enjoy?
Again, it’s fine for people not to like it. To decide looking at the totality if the game and the season pass that it isn’t the game for them or they don’t think it was good value. I just don’t think it makes sense to invent new and peculiar metrics to rationalize how 6 characters is really only 3 because terminator didn’t originate in the MK universe
Six characters that are playable in MK11 is not the same thing as six MK characters. C’mon man, you know that.
As I said above, I absolutely could’ve waited. I knew you were going to say this and you’re totally right. But as a fan of this series, I knew on day one that the game and the KP were available, I was going to get both. I assumed that there would be 1 guest. Maybe 2. Three just seems like a bit too much of a stretch to me.
Again, this is all just my personal preference. NRS is under no obligation to live up to my expectations.
That’s not the same thing. You’re choosing to only play that portion of the roster when the rest of the roster is still available to you. If I order the kombat pack and there are three Mortal Kombat characters and three guests, I don’t get to choose to play three other Mortal Kombat DLC characters because they don’t exist. T-800, Joker and Spawn do not canonically exist in this universe. Sure, they’ll have some fun intros and they’ll have endings, but they’re not MK characters.
Maybe there’s no difference for you and if that’s the case, no problem at all. For me though, as someone that’s played all of these games over the years, I’d rather have characters that already exist in this universe or are created by NRS specifically for this universe. Not guests from other properties.
Yeah it’s just preference. To be clear, I’m not boycotting the game or raging against the devs on twitter or anything even remotely close to that. Not one bit.
However, I don’t believe that I’m inventing any peculiar metrics. I think it’s perfectly logical to say “this is a Mortal Kombat character and that is a character that is from another series that is a guest in this Mortal Kombat game” and want one, but not the other.
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Obviously we won’t be able to bring back every character unless they do another MK Armageddon. But if they feel like they could bring a character back that has been in previous games they could do it for a few reasons.
1: bring in one hit wonders a shot. It was possible for Tremor, though it doesn’t guarantee the reception will be better or worse.
2: Bring back characters form the 3D era that left a very good impact like Kenshi. Or they could try to redeem some 3D characters that did poorly.
Now I can guess that some folks do have a realistic perspective on future rosters. Some folks pretty much don’t expect to see any obscure characters return at all. Some also think some characters should return to finally expand on the lore of other characters or help that character move forwared in the story.
For instance, bringing back Khameleon in a future MK story might be beneficial sense in this current reboot Reptile thinks he’s the only one of his kind. So revealing her in the story may have Reptile finally grow as a character instead of being the same old henchmen for a khan. In fact Reptile’s change to working for Kotal was a change but not significant enough.
But as long as the game keeps getting support, then future characters can make it for DLC if the demand is also there. You can still have a guest character, but I’d pick at least one for the roster.
I mean, I really don’t. I think terminator and Spawn make more sense in the MK universe than Hsu Hao or Dhramin. Fera Tor appears to be a one off character from MKX. Does that mean they are not MK characters? All six fighters that come in the Kombat pack are playable fighters in MK11. The fact that you place a different value on the guest characters is something you are doing. I place a different value on Baraka and Kollector too. But I can’t just subtract one from the roster and say I feel bad that I only get 24 characters in the base game.
No matter how many ways you come up with to say “I wish the characters were different” and no matter what rationale people try to use to make it seem like their complaints are based on something somehow more credible and less abstract than “I wanted different characters,” the complaint is still just that you would prefer a different roster. And again that’s fine. But let’s not introduce a lot of fuzzy math into it.
I’m having a hard time with this logic. The characters I’m choosing not to play are on me but the three dlc characters that you are arbitrarily counting as zero is a “real” distinction? I can’t play an characters that don’t exist either… As I’m tabulating, how much can I complain about non existent characters that they didn’t make that I wouldn’t have played?
I’m not a big spawn fan. It doesn’t do much for me that he’s in the game. Nor am I a big Sindel fan. But I’m not going to come in and say they wasted a “slot” on Sindel. They sold me six characters I’m getting six characters.
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