Your Eyedol is godlike but you’re a scrub at reading match-up charts 
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Dat true
Used to feel the same way but I’ve been doing much better against gargos now. Granted it’s still a big challenge getting in from full screen (especially with minions out)but if u can get right in on him and keep the pressure on its very do able. Light widows bite stuffs alot of his stuff and light flip kick beats most of his wake options as well. Still her most challenging match by far tho.
@TheKeits Just out of curiousity, were you surprised about any of these matchups, or did a lot of this more or less confirm what you and the gameplay team (not sure if you want to speak for anyone else or not) think in terms of how the characters matchup, or perhaps a bit less specifically, how the character tiers shake out?
Also, and I’m not sure how willing you’d be to answer this, but do you think that this data will be useful in terms of future individual balancing / full on rebalances in the future?
I couldn’t recall if you said anywhere that you weren’t going to comment on the tier list, but if you did, then feel free to disregard, obviously. Maybe you just want others to discuss it, which is cool.
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We’ve done these internally and often surprise ourselves, but for this chart, I’m completely staying out of it. I’m just helping the players have a place to put their thoughts down and publishing an averaged way of reading that data. I want to get people talking about matchups in depth and really exploring them together.
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Yeah I kinda figured you guys would want to stay out of the conversation since jumping in might have the unintended consequence of steering rather than participating. I can definitely respect that. I appreciate the data though and I’ve enjoyed the conversation about it a lot.
That said, I was wondering if you’d be willing to answer the second part (as to whether this list would have any influence on balancing individual characters or a potential future full on rebalance). But again, if you’d rather not respond, that’s totally fine by me. If you not answering it before was your answer, then sorry for not picking up on that. 
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No, it would not. The goal of balance is not “5-5s across the board”. See Core-A Gaming’s latest video, it explains my position better than I could.
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Kind of busted?
I talked to Max about this and nothing but 5-5 matchups would be boring.
This doesn’t necessarily make it better or closer to the truth.
It was a design goal to seek the expert character specialist for each character. KI is a small community. It’s hard to find even 2 top players for most characters who understand the game well enough to provide a decent MU chart.
I also did compare B to A, but I didn’t alter the original calculation with that comparison. I did provide a comparison of A to B vs B to A in the form of chart confidence. That way you at least have an opportunity to analyze the data separately. You lose that here.
I see a pretty short list of contributors.
How many players gave input for each character?
It’s essentially the same methodology with more people providing input per character.
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I was merely answering how they were different. I didn’t make any claim about which was better, that’s up for each person to decide for him or herself.
I believe there were about 50 total contributors who gave varying amounts of help, and I think more are being added for next version.
Well, I’d argue the confidence doesn’t give that much information because you are unsure which specific matchups are lacking confidence. Also, when a confidence number is 20%, as many characters are, I’m not sure how to interpret the data.
Ideally in a “community” tier list, I think it should be averaged around the high-level community, no? Bass’s matchup chart is very valuable information, but I feel it shouldn’t be the only contributor to a Spinal community matchup chart. I think I would rather see the aggregated data first, then maybe dig into specific players’ data later if I wanted more.
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I’d say it was an average of 3 people each character @llPaulBll
Super low confidence values don’t inspire much, well, confidence. If a character has an interval of 20%, then what is that really telling you besides these character specialists have wildly different opinions about a certain fight? There’s clearly a gap in perspective between the two people who are supposed to be evaluating these characters at their theoretical maximum capability, but that’s all it says. It’s interesting as a thought piece perhaps, but it’s also nice when a first glance at the “community” tier list doesn’t elicit a “wtf” from the viewer (i.e. Jago in B or C tier in the first one).
Personally, I think the more useful (to the extent a tier list is ever “useful”) tier lists are either those of a specific player (how does JWong think Karin does across the cast), or more aggregate compilations across the community. As a first pass at KI’s character standings, I’d say this list does a pretty good job. I’m interested to see how it evolves as more contributors are added.
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It’s a good read and nice to see how well balanced KI has become.
And personally as a Kim Wu main it’s nice to see her get some cred finally, a very underestimated character. Although she still needs something to make her resource ender more worthwhile. Either damage or multiple dragons dependent on level.
We can provide a link to the spreadsheets so you can see individual people’s charts, that isn’t a problem.
And if anyone feels qualified to join the project, they need simply ask one of our contributors for an invite. We’d love to double the number of users for version 2.
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Some ppl did one. Others did multiple. For example I think heretic stuck to aria where as I had input on Aganos raam gargos and omen and cupcake did charts for a large portion of people.
MFW I’m looking for a character to use versus Fulgore and he’s not beaten by any characters 
just wait bro cause others changes for banlancing are coming