It’s only happening off a juggle which means that Jago either went for his worst ender (post-ender juggle damage is lol) or anti-aired you (which hurts enough without a reset opportunity), you get this comically large amount of time to notice the flipout compared to those of other characters, and Jago doesn’t get the sort of 5-way mixup that other characters get off their flipouts. I wouldn’t bat an eyelid if the devs removed it in the next patch.
I’m finding ragged edge more useful for counterhit confirms and punishes than for use as a wind kick-like halfscreen threat. Out past midscreen I’d rather running uppercut, or jumping slash/hamstring mixup, or dash forward and do something like overpower or sweep, and closer in I’m more likely going for overpower. I don’t know that shadow counterability of ragged edge is a big thing.
Besides, you seem to be ignoring the substance of my argument. Jago cares more about good shadow counters because:
- Wulf can frame trap forever, but he can also go straight for the mixups, meaning he spends less time frame trapping on average than Jago, who really wants to frame trap forever. The more you frame trap, the easier it is for your opponent to guess shadow counter and be correct.
- If Wulf’s frame traps push him out and he wants back in, he can overpower and keep going, without offering up a two-hitting move to shadow counter on reaction. Jago needs to offer up a double roundhouse, which, whilst difficult, is shadow counterable on reaction.
It’s probably not the best use of meter for Jago.[quote=“MaruMDQ, post:7, topic:13642”]
Just dp out of them
Easier said than done, especially in the heat of the moment where you’re suggesting the Jago player goes from crouch-block to Z motion and a button within, what, 15 frames, perfectly timed? And whilst on counterhit the damage from Jago’s DP is up above 15%, on block Jago should be taking a big punish stating with 20% guaranteed, and expected damage in the 30-40% range.
Wait, block? Backdash? After overpower? Are we talking about the same move? Overpower is +2 or something, right?
If you do, say, crLK, crLK, crLK, overpower, crLK, overpower, crLK, crLK, overpower, crLK, …, over and over again, forever, then basically the only ways out are reversal, backdash and shadow counter. If your opponent just presses a button anywhere in there, you net a counterhit and confirm into a combo. Basically the first thing I did when I started learning Wulf was to get decent at this loop.
It’ll do that, which maybe discourages dash-in sweep somewhat, which seems fair because dash-in sweep is generally pretty darn good. But you have other options to stuff out wind kick in ranges where you would go for a sweep.
If you’re in range to eat a double roundhouse then you’re in range to overpower.
Yeah, I used to think it was easier for Wulf to punish a fireball from midscreen on reaction than I’m finding it to be now that I’m on the Wulf side. Maybe I just got rekt by too many aggressive Wulfs just going straight for the mixup and lost the nerve to throw fireballs, or maybe I’m not good enough at reaction hamstring.
But you don’t have to react. You can just get into that midscreen range and throw the mixup at them, and if the Jago player threw the fireball then you win, and if they didn’t then they still have to block the mixup. If they throw a lot of fireballs then this becomes really likely to work, and you can also jump at them from certain ranges and diving slash if you see the fireball startup. You should also just dash forward and block the fireballs, which’ll put you at Jago’s doorstep very quickly because Wulf’s dash is amazing.
If you’re downbacking, all you need to do is flick up and hit a punch. You don’t even have to worry about whether it’ll cross up or anything like that.