If You Could Nerf One Character

General Discussion
81

Sure, why not? I’ve almost given up at this point but still feel obligated to point out that while blade dash is safe, its not a low crush like windkick, and its not a low like orchid’s slide, and its still throwable. Also (and probably most importantly) its on a character that literally does not get meter unless he uses his physical moves. His ONLY physical special moves are blade dash and DP. What you’re proposing is a nerf that would mean the only truly safe way for him to increase his spin speed (outside of a combo that is, but also keep in mind that he doesn’t have a resource ender) would be to mash his light attacks (as cancelling other moves into medium eye laser would make him safe, but would once again reset his spin speed back to zero).

I’ve said it before, just remove this stupid character. Everyone hates him, everyone thinks he’s so ridiculous, and practically nobody plays him. Just get rid of him.

82

that man knows whats up LMAO

2 Likes
83

Uhh… I don’t hate Fulgore. He’s one of my mains/alts/whatever we’re calling them.

And I’m not even suggesting the heavy Blade Dash because I don’t like it or can’t deal with it. It’s more about consistency. Typically speaking, advancing specials that quickly move you full screen are usually unsafe as a balance. Some examples are Arbiter’s lunge, Jago’s windkick (after patch) and full screen versions of slides. I suggested Blade Dash’s heavy version just to make it consistent with this design.

It still retains it’s charge capability, which makes it safe and I think he should retain that option as it’s a fair trade off. I have absolutely no issue with Fulgore, though.

1 Like
84

Okay, then for the sake of consistency:

Jago should not be allowed to gain instinct meter for doing an “around the world,” he already is the only character that could get 3 instinct modes due to life gain, since spinal lost the ability to gain instinct outside of taking damage, Jago should lose that too.

Slides should not go under fireballs. Why should they? If full screen forward moving attacks should be unsafe and still get hit by fireballs, why should slides be exempt?

Why are some characters allowed to freely combo after a throw? I think for consistency’s sake that an unblockable move such as a throw should not also count as a combo opener, that’s totally unfair for those that don’t have that ability.

DPs, flat out remove them outside of shadow versions. SFV did this, let’s go that route.

Recaptures, again, not everyone has them, either give them to everyone or remove them.

Characters that don’t have all the ender types (i.e. resource, hkd, damage, etc.) give everyone access to all.

I could go on, but is this sounding good to you? Everyone complains about characters being similar or sharing animations and yet all I’ve been hearing is about how everything in the game should be consistent. And the funniest part of the argument is that there’s absolutely nothing consistent about Fulgore because of his stupid meter system. You want to TRULY make him consistent? Fine, give him a normal meter like everyone else.

Your argument doesn’t even make sense, Jago’s wind kick is also a low crush, orchid’s slide goes under fireballs, what does blade dash do aside from being safe? Make it unsafe and its just plain worse. But again, whatever, this game has steadily gone downhill since s3.

85

Okay, your name is starting to make sense. Consistency is not stating everything should be exact carbon copies of each other. And I’m not sure anyone would make that jump in logic unless they were just feeling salty.

I’m not sure why you brought up SFV but let’s use that as an example. DP’s do exist outside of EX versions, not sure why you brought that up but whatever. But this provides an excellent comparison. A DP in SFV is typically a vertically hitting, unsafe move. At it’s base, that’s what it is. Now past that, different characters can do different things or juggles or cancels off different strengths. This is what I’m talking about.

Within KI, characters are designed to have a beautiful and interesting amount of variety. That doesn’t mean there isn’t consistency in the general design of specific archetypes of moves. DP’s, as in the previous example, are typically vertical and unsafe with every character getting their own spin on damage, cash out, juggling, continuation, etc. Full screen advancing specials are the same way. Typically speaking, they are balanced out by being punishable. Outside of that, we do see their implementation and unique properties as you’ve outlined (some low crush, some hit low, some ignore projectiles, some involve projectiles, some can be charged to be safe, etc). And on that last one, it doesn’t even take that long to charge a Blade Dash to cover full screen and be 0 (much less having the option to hold it slightly longer and get a few frames of plus), which would persist in spite of my suggestion and should be something we Fulgore players are doing anyway to build spin speed.

1 Like
86

We agree that Ki characters are designed to have a “beautiful and interesting amount of variety,” but consistency directly contradicts that thought. Should throwing extra fireballs at different speeds require extra meter? For fulgore it does, for omen it doesn’t, how should we change that? Its inconsistent! If you truly want consistency you should push to normalize Fulgore’s meter.

You use DPs as an example of being consistent, but even they aren’t. Take cinder’s for example, he gets a full combo of it, yet it is still a DP. Should that be removed to be consistent with all of the other characters DPs? Fulgore can shadow eye laser after his to make it safe(r), I suppose that should also be removed since it’s out of sync with the DP standard.

I genuinely don’t understand how you can read your statement and not see the contradiction. You’re basically telling me that some things should be consistent, but others shouldn’t!

87

How about you just accept the game’s rules for what they are or don’t?

88

Where in the rulebook does it say that every full screen attack needs to be unsafe?

Or were you referencing something else?

89

Kim Wu:

Dragon Kick can only be done if you have a dragon.

Lol.

@SonicDolphin117

1 Like
90

Oh and also, there’s been a lot of posts, maybe I forgot, is this still the “What would you nerf” thread? Maybe I’m misunderstanding things here, but isn’t the nature of this thread to question the current “rules” of the game?

91

Goodness, seems like a lot of people misunderstood my intentions.

I’m just having fun with this. I simply wanted to see what people would post in response to the question without worry of being told their idea was bad, etc. They could be over the top ideas, for all I care.

I know it’s the anti-thesis of a forum thread, but…eh, I just wanted to see where it went.

92

this thread is looking very much alive and fun

2 Likes
93

So i don’t have to listen to ppl tell me that i only win cause of omen :joy::joy:

94

Personally, TJ’s vortex for me. I get that flip-outs are something that you can counter easily, but I feel that no matter what I do I can’t block his attacks or avoid his command grab. You tend to be so low to the ground when you are flipped-out that you have little time to respond whereas Jago tends to get you after a launch ender and you are further from the ground.

But that might just be me.

95

Consistency makes boring characters where all unique options can make every character play the same. SFV falls quite badly to that where everyone must be offensive to remain effective.

Jago was given this trait because no one would use this combo trait for anything. It does less damage then more effective lockout combos while being easier to break due to the strength pattern.

Slides have low profile hitboxs. If you bet your marbles on a successful slide you should be rewarded. Not only that sweeps for anyone smaller then Thunder can low profile fireballs.

Double edge sword. Combo throws offer more potential damage and options with the trade off of dealing less base damage. (5% compared to a normal 10%) Not only that but those who have combo throws generally have less damage overall (Sadira, Shago, Cinder, Killgore) or require the corner to combo (Glacius, Omen)

The removal of dps made vortexs more prevalent causing the infamous Balrog, Ibuki, Laura 2 touch combo that everyone loves. /sarcasm While I prefer dps be made unsafe outside of instinct removing them would make the neutral and pressure more monotonous as well as removing a core strength from a character because they were “cheap”

Not everyone has projectiles. Not everyone has wakeup options outside of shadow. Not everyone has command grabs. Not everyone has + on block specials. And not everyone has vortexs. Different tools for different characters make the game more interesting and allows unique plans to challenge the same problem.

See above. Also imagine abuse cases. Mira with a HDK? Aganos with more meter? Omen with no battery but a true damage ender?

Sure the devs can take his reactor gauge. But in turn he’ll lose his pip cancels, auto shadow regen, pip bonuses and hype beam. He has weakness to satisfy his massive bonus towards the rest of the cast, the ability to cancel specials to specials. Or play Killgore.

Blade dash can be charged for more + on block pressure, can be pip canceled, can bait shadow counters, beat back dashes and made safe with teleport. Spend more time in the dojo find your characters strength.

96

Um, I think you completely missed the point of my post, those were examples to show that “consistency” would completely ruin what’s left of this game. None of those examples I gave are things I want.

The only thing I’ll refute is telling a fulgore player to “spend more time in the dojo.” He’s been nerfed in all but one (iirc) patch since s3 dropped. Far too many of his good set ups get erased every 2 months. And judging by the majority of the opinions on these forums, he’s gonna get nerfed again next patch!

97

It seems that you misunderstand what consistency actually is (or maybe I do, I’m not above admitting if I’m wrong).

Consistency is not blatant similarity. Consistency addresses that types/flavors/genres of things follow a specific make up. I used the example of a DP. DP’s are traditionally vertical, semi-invulnerable moves that are unsafe on their own. That’s a baseline example of a DP. Almost every DP, if not all, in KI follow this definition at a base while also having their own nuances (such as Cinder’s fired up or Fulgore’s shadow cancel). Both DP’s have those traits that a typical DP or reversal has and that’s why we call them such. But even though we call those DP’s, along with Thunder’s, Glacius’s, etc, they still have little nuances to them.

For example, let’s say we release a new character named Farnsworth that has a DP which is naturally safe, say +1 or +2 in all of its forms and requiring no special resource, timer or modifier to achieve this. This would blatantly stick out compared to what a DP is and seem really inconsistent.

Another idea would be to compare Call of Duty, Titanfall and Battlefield. All three games are shooters and, because of that genre, follow a level of consistency in general game design. This would namely be first person perspective, shooter-based, multiplayer-focused, objective-driven gameplay (getting kills is an objective, shush). All three games’ functions implement things differently but have a consistency in form. If one suddenly implemented a stats and numbers approach to determining combat, it would no longer look like one of the others, despite they already have differences in the first place.

1 Like
98

Okay, consistency essentially means to make things the same. For example, character x shouldn’t have something because character y doesn’t have it is what consistency means.

In the example of a full screen forward moving attack, Fulgore’s is currently safe on block, but Orchid’s slide is not. You’re proposing that “for consistency’s sake,” Fulgore’s should not be safe, since Orchid’s is not safe, however, the fact that Orchid’s goes under fireballs means that it’s not consistent with Fulgore’s either. To truly make them consistent, neither should go under fireballs and both should be safe -OR- both should go under fireballs and be unsafe. That’s consistency. You cannot have moves that are different and say they should be “consistent” without making them essentially the exact same. If you want to throw another dynamic into it, the fact that Fulgore needs to do physical attacks to build his spin speed means that he needs to use his blade dash more than Orchid needs to use her slide, or he won’t build meter.

If you want an example of consistency, look at SFV. The vast majority of the cast plays incredibly similar due to the developers intentionally making it with consistency in mind. The game may be balanced, but the characters don’t have much in the way of being unique.

Your example of using FPS doesn’t make much sense in terms of balance. While there is a level of consistency between games of the same genre, you should not be balancing your game based off of what another game is doing. If COD nerfs a gun to balance their game, that doesn’t mean Battlefield should nerf a similar gun so that the two games will stay consistent with each other.

Using your logic, one could assume that KI, Street Fighter, Tekken, and Injustice are consistent with each other since they’re all one on one fighters where the goal is to take your opponents life bar. Clearly that’s not the case.

99

Jesus christ. @Paramisery, dude, we get it. You think fulgore has been over-nerfed and you’re not having fun with the character the way he plays right now.

You don’t need to force that down anyone’s throat, I think you’ve stated your opinions clearly enough. And you’re most certainly entitled to them. Others do not need to agree with you though, and I’d say that after 676494373 posts of the same argument you could agree to disagree? Either that, or open an “unnerf fulgore” thread, in his character forum, or whatever. Can you agree with that at least?

2 Likes
100

I was explaining what “consistency” means, apparently people like to use that term only to apply to some things, but not others. Never meant to ■■■■ anyone off, but if this is the general mindset of the majority of players, then maybe I should just move on.

For what its worth, I did open a “dealing with pressure” thread for Fulgore about a week or so ago, and the general consensus was basically “you have DP so shut up.”