How would you rebalance for Season 4?

I know it’s just a tad early considering that Season 3’s not over yet and Season 4 has yet to be announced, but with the next update appearing to be more substantial in terms of character changes, it got me thinking about what I’d like to see done to the cast prior to a potential 4th season.

Now, I’ll freely admit, I let my imagination run a bit wild here, so if you think my ideas are terrible, feel free to point it out or just ignore them entirely and put what you’d like to see, as that’s more of what I’m concerned with anyways.

SO THE OBJECT HERE: Pick any character(s) you want. Is there anything you’d nerf on them? Anything you’d buff? Is there anything new you’d like to give them like a command attack or a special move, etc? Perhaps you’d like to change the way something works on a character or replace it completely with something else?

Here are my suggestions. I decided to go buff, nerf and then new move for a lot of the characters but don’t feel like you have to hold to that format and by all means, please post your own! I’d love to hear some ideas.


Buff: Jago gets 5% more health back on connected double endokukens and shadow endokukens when in instinct.

Nerf: Endokuken damage reduced by 10% on each connected double endokuken and shadow endokuken in instinct.

New Target Combos:
-Up+HK, HP: Jump kick to laser sword uppercut (can catch airborn or grounded opponent)
-Up+HK, HK: Jump kick to split kick )can catch airborn or grounded opponent)


Buff: When instinct is active, Sabrewulf does additional damage on all combo enders in the form of green electricity that shoots out from him and in to the opponent. He can keep tapping the button he used to end the combo with for a small amount of additional chip damage up to five chips, but doing so will also damage him in an equal amount and can kill him if his health is low enough. He’s also completely vulnerable while adding on additional chip damage.

Nerf: No more regular chip damage during instinct.

New Move: Pounce - D, D+LP, MP or FP - Sabrewulf crouches down and then leaps at the opponent with claws extended.
-Holding LP, MP or FP down while keep Sabrewulf in crouching position until the button is released.
-Back dash to cancel out of held pounce.
-Can cancel run in to pounce hold, but releasing it will automatically cause him to back dash instead of pounce.
-Shadow version does a somersaulting pounce which hits more.
-Opener, Linker, Hard Knockdown Ender.


Buff: Ice Pick (B+HK) size and range extended 20%.

Nerf: Puddle punch damage ender damage decreased by 10%

New Move: Icy Grip - B, F+LP&MP - A sweep range distance command grab where Glacius’ arms extend and pull opponent in to a headbutt.
-Can be blocked like a special move OR teched like a throw.
-Opener and Linker.


Buff: MP Widows bite recaptures if both she and the opponent are airborn. She attaches a web to the opponent, dives to the ground, then pulls the opponent down to her by the webbing.

Nerf: No more mid-air target combos. See below.

New Move: Spiral Demon - D, T+LP, MP or HP (in air), a mid-air linker where she spirals toward the opponent with her hand knives outsretched.

New Combat Trait: Now when she’s in the air, she uses a regular strike for an auto, and can follow up with Spiral Demon as a linker, then another auto, before ending with either LP widows bite for a kick, MP widows bite for a recapture, or HP widows bite for attach and kick to cash out the combo.


Buff: Slight arc added to Downpour (LK off of Samammish) so that he travels forward slightly.

Nerf: Damage on Shadow Call of Earth decreased by 15%.

New Move: Phoenix - D, T+LK, MK or HK, a command grab where Thunder hurls the opponent up in to the air while a murder of crows flies down from above and slams the opponent back to the earth.
-Does less damage than Call of Earth and doesn’t allow any follow up advantage, but provides Thunder time to charge one Call of Sky.
-Can be done in air as well, but not off of Sammamish. He slams the opponent to the ground before hurling them up in to the air for the murder of crows to slam the opponent to the ground once more.


Buff: During Instinct, TJ gets the season 2 version of his roll back.

Nerf: Power line damage reduced by 10%.

New Move: Speed bag - LP&MP&FP - TJ does three quick speed bag punches with his left fist, then three more with his right.
-Opener or Linker.
-Once initiated, TJ is locked in to autobarrage. This is the only way to get in to autobarrage, replacing the previous method.


Nerf: F+HK Axe Kick damage reduced by 50% because it also recaptures.

Buff: Daggars now return to Maya after Spirit Strike ender completes.

New Move: Spinning Slice - D, B+LP, MP or FP - Maya spins her body one way toward opponent while spinning one of her daggers in her hand in an upward arcing motion before rotating her body the other way and doing the same with the other dagger in a downward arcing motion.
-Must have both daggers to do double spin.
-Only having one dagger means that you only spin once.
-Having no daggers will make Maya spin her body and uppercut with one hand before immediately punching downward with the other hand. Hits less times and hits less hard than if she had either or both of her daggers.
-D, B+LP version is an opener that starts with her temperance dagger. This is also a linker. Gains one charge on temperance dagger if combo is ended at level 3 or higher.
-D, B+MP version is an opener that starts with her vengeance dagger. This is also a linker. Gains one charge on vengeance dagger if combo is ended at level 3 or higher.
-Shadow version is an opener that starts with dagger attached and hits longer and harder. This is also a linker.

New Instinct Move: D, B+FP is her Spinning Slice Ender and it is a Damage and Charge Ender.
-Any combo that Maya ends in instinct of level 2 or higher using FP Spinning Slice will do hard damage and also give her a dagger charge on both daggers.


Nerf: MP & FP Crecendo damage scaled down to LP version.

Buff(ish?): ARIA can now switch bodies pre-match.

New Command Attack: Disharmony - T+HP (Hold) - Bass Body only. ARIA’s right hand glows blue and she does a rocket-punch with her fist once HP is released.
-If the punch connects at anything other than full charge, the opponent is blasted back to sweep range.
-If the punch connects at full charge, the opponent is blasted across the screen.
-In either case, ARIA’s hand will continue to glow blue until one of two things happen: Either she switches bodies, in which case she loses the charge, or she uses her Disonance projectile, which will hit five times instead of the normal three.

New Move: Recalibration: D, D, MK (Hold) - All Bodies. ARIA glows and electricity crackles around her.
-The health bars of her two non-active bodies will slowly drain while the health bar of the active body will replenish at a slightly faster speed.
-If she only has one active body and one inactive body, the replenishing will be slower.
-This move cannot be performed if she only has one active body and no inactive bodies.
-She is completely vulnerable in this state to any incoming physical attacks.
-ARIA will absorb all incoming projectiles, but doing so will greatly speed up the replenishing process.
-Speed of replenishing only adjusts once after absorbing a projectile, absorbing additional projectiles will not make the replenishing go even faster.

KIM WU - Season 4 Rework Character

Buff: Firecracker now hits 3 times instead of 2.

Nerf: Catching someone with only the rising kick part of Shadow Dragon Kick does same damage as catching someone in the full version. No more huge damage off of this move.

Move Change: Dragon Counter LP-MP-FP is now Fire Flower: A purple blast of light that explodes from one of Kim Wu’s hands.

Move Change: Firecracker ender is no longer her Dragon Ender. It’s now a Launcher Ender.

New Move: Fire Flower ender. She jumps in the air and a purple burst of light explodes from her hand, she quickly falls to the ground and does the same, then jumps again with a third burst before falling again for a fourth burst that sends the opponent backwards and Kim Wu backflipping with a new dragon. This is now her Dragon Ender.

New Move: Dragon Grasp Variations: D, B LP&LK, only now, holding down LP&LK will have Kim Wu pause in a handstand on top of her opponent.

-Releasing LP&LK and pressing nothing else will have her vault over the opponent like normal.

-Releasing LP&LK and quickly pressing LP&MP will have her perform an arm drag that will pull the opponent over her and on to the other side, so they don’t actually switch sides, but the opponent is damaged. If the opponent is close enough to a wall, they will wallsplat.

-Releasing LP&LK and quickly pressing LP-MP-HP will have Kim drop down to the ground and DDT the opponents head in to the ground in one quick motion.

-Releasing LP&LK and quickly pressing LK&MK will have Kim vault off of the opponent while pushing the opponent away from her. It does no damage, but she gains a dragon from it.

-Releasing LP&LK and quickly pressing LK-MK-FK will have Kim drop down so she’s sitting on the opponent’s back, and in one quick motion, she’ll then flip forward in a somersault, so she’s on the ground and the opponent is perched on her feet, where she’ll then kick her opponent up in to the air in an arc, and she fires a dragon cannon at them while they’re in the air if she has any.

New Moves off of Dragon Kata: LK, MK or FK
-LK is a short range move where she spins through the air while twirling her nun chuck, if she hits the opponent, it’s an opener.
-MK is the medium range version. Also an opener.
-FK is the long range version. Also an opener.


Replace Move: Remove Moose Jaw should charge is LP/LK during Immortal Spirit. Replace it with a flying big boot.

New Combat Trait: Singe Damage. When Tusk’s sword and tattoos are fully glowing, the opponent smokes on any sword strike that connects and does an extra chip of potential damage.

New Ender: Health / Carry Ender: D, T+LP&LK. Tusk stabs the ground with his sword, pulls the opponents face to it, singing them while Tusk gains the potential health that the opponent loses in potential damage. He then pulls the sword out of the ground in an uppercutting motion, sending the opponent backwards. Does NOT cause a wallsplat.
-This ender is only available when Tusk is and his sword are fully glowing. Tusk’s sword will flash white twice, indicating when he’s in this state. His sword will flash black twice if he falls out of it.


Nerf: All damage dealt by Mira that causes blood damage is decreased by 5%

Buff: All blood damage done to to Mira is decreased by 5%.

Buff: Embrace (MP) connects on Shadow Blood Seekers if the move catches the opponent in air.

Nerf: Doing so negates any additional damage Shadow Blood Seekers would’ve done had the move not been interrupted.

Buff: Heavy Reaping recaptures on Shadow Blood Seekers if the move catches the opponent in air.

New Command Attack: Flip Slash - F+HP - Mira does a forward handspring in to both hands slashing downward on the opponent.
-Both the legs on the handspring as well as each hand hits the opponent totaling three hits.
-Mira takes blood damage

GENERAL RAAM - Season 4 Rework Character

Buff: Decimation (D, F+Punch) now moves him 10% further on each version.

Nef: Dominance and Shadow Dominance damage reduced by 10%.

New Move: Kryll Rush Variations
-LK during Kryll Rush: Pulls sword behind his head before performing a double slash that hits twice at mid level.
-MK during Kryll Rush: Pulls sword behind his head before performing a downward stab with the butt end of the sword which hits overhead.
-FK during Kryll Rush: Lowers shoulder and rams in to opponent knocking them backwards.
-Wall splat on hit if opponent is in the corner.

Move Change: Emergence is now D, U+K

-New Move: Kryll Summon - D, F+LK, MK or HK - Raam calls for a pack of Kryll, which come forth and form in to a ball before dropping to the ground.

-Slow startup animation on all three versions.

-LK Kryll Summon forms a ball directly in front of Raam and floats for one second before dropping to the ground. If opponent blocks, the Kryll Summon fizzles in a puff of black smoke.

-MK Kryll Summon forms a ball at sweep range. Will float for four seconds before falling to the ground. If opponent is inside sweep range, the Kryll Summon will go around them, doing one chip of potential damage before forming behind the opponent. Unless the opponent is ducking, in which case no damage is done. If opponent blocks, the Kryll Summon fizzles in a puff of black smoke.

-FK Kryll Summon forms a ball at half screen range. Will float for seven seconds before falling to the ground. If the opponent is inside of this range, the Kryll Summon will go around them, doing one chip of potential damage before forming behind the opponent. Unless the opponent is ducking, in which case no damage is done. If opponent blocks, the Kryll Summon fizzles in a puff of black smoke.

-When a second Kryll Summon is done, the one that came out before, whether it’s floating or on the ground, will fizzle in a cloud of black smoke. Unless the second Kryll Summon is the LK version and it connects on opponent.

-Opponent may punch or kick floating summons or low kick / sweep puddles on the ground to get rid of them. All puddles will fizzle out after five seconds.

-All projectiles in the game destroy floating Kryll Summons, but the projectile is slowed down by 80%, giving Raam time to either block the incoming projectile or destroy it with another Kryll Summon.

-If opponent walks in to or jumps in to a floating MK or FK Kryll Summon, the ball will glow and ignite and blow the opponent up in to the air and backwards in a slow arc, away from Raam. So if Raam hits an opponent with a LK Kryll Summon at close range, he can blow them quickly in to a floating MK or FK version, which will blow the opponent back further in the slower arc.

-Kryll Summon puddles will disappear if opponent low kicks / sweeps them, if Raam walks over them, or the opponent walks over them or lands on them. If opponent walks over a Kryll Summon puddle or lands on one, they are poisoned for 5 seconds, or they recharge the timer (up to the ten second limit) if they’re already poisoned.

-Landing on Floating Kryll Summon or walking in to them does NOT poison opponent.


Replace Move: Remove Crushing Destroyer ground bounce ender (Warrior Stance) and replace it with Health Syphon Ender. D, T+HP uses the start of Crushing Destoryer, but ends with a swinging club that knocks opponent back as Eyedol smacks his club on the ground 3 times, gaining a sliver of health each time while opponent loses a sliver of health.
-Eyedol can keep hitting HP to pound the ground for more health slivers, but he does so at his own risk, as he is vulnerable after the moves initial completion.

Buff: Clobber (F+HP) in Warrior Stance recaptures, but only if the first attack is what launched the opponent.

Fix: No longer expend two shadow stocks in a row in Mage Stance after doing initial shadow move.


Buff: Izzik now has same hit requirement as Dretch (three).

Nerf: Sadistic Appetite shadow devour amount decreased by 20%.

Buff: Holding down HK for Insolence increases blast radius up to twice as large depending on how long the button’s held.

Okay, so that’s all I have for now. If you actually read any of this, then props to you. :slight_smile: Much appreciated!

I might come back with a few other characters later, but I just had a few ideas and wanted to put them out there. My main thing is that I’m curious what other people think, not so much of my ideas, but if you have any of your own, I’d be very curious to read them!

Er…no offense, but a lot of these sound like they haven’t really been thought out all that much. For instance, making firecracker a 3-hit move isn’t a buff. That just makes it even easier to shadow counter. And for TJ, making his instinct even MORE insane isn’t really offset by a minor damage nerf to powerline…but neutering his mixup game by shackling his combo trait to a 6(!!!) hit opener isn’t offset by making his instinct more insane.

What I would change…it’s hard to really pin it down. I’d buff raam’s shadow bear grab, and I’d do SOMETHING to fulgore’s grounded shadow eye laser so it’s actually worth using. But I’m not sure exactly what I’d do to either move. Thunder’s meterless reversal would go. I’d give sadira some kind of mid-air hard knockdown, unless her new combo trait is strong enough she wouldn’t need it. There’s a bunch of characters I’d want to be able to more easily juggle into their sweeps. I think I would also make shago’s slides just as unsafe, but give them a bit more blockstun so the punish doesn’t have to be quite as fast…and I’m not sure how I feel about him being so safe on whiffed divekicks.

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Interesting list but I have two main issues: Glacius and Tusk

Glacius: Isn’t the point of a premier zoner is to keep you out? Why does he need a move that brings the opponent in? So not only is he a threat from full screen, but he’s now even more of a threat midscreen. Combine that with all the stuff he can do now, a 10% decrease on his damage ender is definitely not enough of a nerf.

Tusk: The guy does stupid damage as it is (the same one who can do 20% off a normal). And now he has access to even more damage plus he can gain life back?! Combine with the fact that there are no nerfs to him, that would make Tusk fly into OP territory. Also (and I know it’s minor) is there really any point to changing the animation of his shoulder bash other than just to make it look more like his classic self? You do know that it was changed in the first place because it looked to much like Jago’s windkick right?

Even though you did say this was your opinion and I respect that, but it was those two especially right now that I just couldn’t help but go “what?!”

Edit: Though if I were to change something in a possible rebalance, it would be Kim Wu. Not sure exactly what, but would like for her to have her dragons be a bit more of a valued resource. Like more things you can do with it

able to risk/reward throw away an instinct meter to cancel a taunt, so you can mix taunts into a combo like after a launcher

Wow that was… Subtle? LOL. No problem though, we don’t have to agree on everything, or anything really. Just throwing some ideas out there and hoping to hear some from others. :slight_smile:

That said, I don’t think you’re wrong on Kim Wu’s Firecracker. I meant to imply that the duration of the move would be the same, but she’d get three hits in instead of two, which I think might make it harder to shadow counter, but looking back at my post, I didn’t imply that at all, so my bad!

Also meant to imply that TJ’s autobarrage starter would take off a very small amount of health even though it’s six hits. That said, I originally thought of it as two hits with the left and two with the right. Think I probably should’ve stuck with that idea. Had a feeling the instinct buff wouldn’t go over well. :slight_smile:

All in all though, like I said, I kind of let my imagination run wild, so I probably went (more than) a bit overboard. I also didn’t provide any reasoning and did that on purpose, as providing an argument for everything would’ve made a monumentally long post three times as long, but that didn’t really help my cause.

I thought it’d be a nice idea to have him control distance a bit better as a zoner (i.e. when to keep someone out and when to let them in), but I can see how that might be at odds with the General zoner archetype.

Yeah I hear ya. It’s not so much the classic nod as it was giving him a move that Glacius didn’t already have in the shoulder charge. Perhaps something completely different might’ve better.

I will say this, the health exchange was intended to be minor, but also within the context of making the glowing sword and tattoos actually do something beyond the aesthetics as well as give him another ender.

Should’ve thought about nerfs! :slight_smile: Ya got me there. I mixed up the formula here and there, but that wasn’t to say that I was trying to paint a complete picture of all I want to see for the characters. But I still should’ve put some offsetting nerfs in given what I was talking about adding to him.

No problem! Not trying to hide behind “well that’s just how I feel.” I put my opinion out there, and I was a bit over the top with it, so I expect a little “what?!” here and there.

Totally agree with you on Kim Wu and her dragons for that matter. I thought putting one in a multipart throw would be a nice additional use, but the multipart throw idea is probably a bit over the top, especially with four options. I originally thought of two options; one that gave you a dragon and one that used a dragon.

Regardless of that idea, I still think her move list needs something else. Another opener and another ender, especially if one of them does no damage and grants a dragon, would be nice IMO.

lol, it seems like @Iago407 really wants to get some of the stuff these characters used to do in classic KI games into this game.

I get the impression that you’re willing to severely nerf barrage just so you don’t go into barrage by accident because you accidentally pressed a button.

Yeah, between Kim Wu’s Fire Flower and Tusk’s Boot, I did go a bit overboard on classic moves. I did try to change Thunder’s Phoenix in to a throw since I kinda feel like the original grappler character could use another grab or two. I also left Sabrewulf’s bats out and thought of trying something new for his instinct.

I still like the fire flower idea, but Tusk’s boot could probably be replaced with something new and completely unique.

I prefer this structure for it, but I’d be lying if I said that wasn’t a desirable consequence. I thought about him being able to interrupt autos with this move as well. Too much? Not enough?

Any ideas that you’d like to see for a season 4 rebalance?

Sorry to double post, but maybe I screwed up here a bit in throwing so many ideas out there and letting my imagination go a bit in the initial post. I originally intended to make this thread because I’m honestly curious what ideas others might have, so my apologies. I could’ve done this better. :slight_smile:

About the same, with one caveat: what happens when someone attempts to break it? Does it have a strength? Is the breaker ignored? Timing lockout?

Currently the idea of barrage is that you don’t want to do it except to bait your opponent into breaking an auto double and get them to lock out on the wrong strength, but if they don’t fall for it then that’s okay too because you could advantage ender or play the counter breaker game or something. The auto double/barrage mixup is basically a better counter breaker mixup.

I’d say that Speed Bag, in and of itself would have no strength given that the button press to initiate it would’ve LP-MP-FP, and that outside of a combo, it would’ve heavily minus on block, and unbreakable on hit or within a combo. If the TJ user thinks they’re about to be broken, they could activate Speed Bag at any time, but the opponent is not penalized with a timing lockout should they try to break, but are cut off first by Speed Bag. The breaker is ignored, but from that point on, autobarrage would behave like normal.

Would that make sense? Trying to think of something that would make autobarrage more of a dilineated pathway at a lower level (which I’ll freely admit that I am with TJ) while not actually hurting the utility of autobarrage itself.

That’d be weaker. When you go into barrage you want your opponent to lock out from trying to break the auto double.

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  • Medium wind kick is now -6 on block. To compensate, starts up 1 frame faster.
  • Heavy laser sword is now -1 on block, medium laser sword is now -2 on block.
  • Double Roundhouse is now 0 on block.
  • Regular DP damage reduced by 25%.
  • Throwing a double fireball removes 20% of your remaining instinct meter.

< wakes up in a hospital bed >

Doctor: "Oh look he’s coming to! Can you describe your attacker?"
Me: “All I can remember is, he had an Australian accent and was frothing at the mouth about people who don’t want to pre-emptively block in neutral.”


@Infilament I suffered a lot trying to not laugh at this while at my job xD

I don’t get this reference… help? :confused:

I didn’t read the whole list, but I did think it strange that you want to give Glacius a command grab when he already has shatter (which is essentially a command grab)

The thing about the balance changes is that they will hope to accomodate the abilities of new characters in the rebalance if it comes to that. So without any indicator of who they might be, I’ll refrain from speculating. Some interesting looking ideas there, will expand on a couple after work if I can.

lol, no comment. :innocent:

Half my posts might be cacophonous howling at the very slightest hint of the idea of wind kick becoming punishable on block and KI turning into Street Fighter.


Ahh much clearer, thanks. Not sure why I didn’t get it at “Australian” and “frothing”

Oh absolutely! Agree 100%. Without having the knowledge of what new characters are coming along and what they can do, not to mention any new mechanics that might be added to the game along the lines of flip out, stagger or recapture, any speculation that we’re talking about here is premature. I fully acknowledge that.

I guess I was more just looking at this in the vacuum of the here and the now in terms of how we see the characters and what we might change about them in this moment. What we might add or subtract, help or hurt them with, etc. Just sort of a “taking stock” kind of a deal or a snapshot in time, if you will.

Now that season 3 is done character-wise, I was just curious what people might change or adjust prior to the next season, but I can absolutely see why one might look at that as a fruitless endeavor given how much we don’t know yet about what’s to come later.

True, but I kinda figured that giving TJ some modicum of control over when the opponent can actually break in a situation would be to TJ’s advantage as well, but I hear ya. It’s not exactly the best exchange given what you’re losing.

Anyone remember mini ultra’s from KI2? I, for one, would love to see the return of these in the new KI. No specific idea as to how they would work though. Just that I’d love to see them again.

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