Are all staggers heavy or different strengths?
Different depending on tbe strength of the move just like every other attack in the game.
I still don’t see why stagger is a problem.
What makes it different than any other attack?
Hisako had high stun attacks similar to stagger in s2. Why is now a problem?
It was just her though. But I’ll stop now, all I will say now is that staggers and flip outs took away the fun from the game in my opinion, I’m speaking for myself here so if others enjoy them then that’s cool too no problem. I haven’t and will probably never get used to staggers.
But why? I can totally understand why flipouts may bother people, but what exactly disturbs you about staggers?
He probably feels out of control when he thinks it’s his turn to move during a stagger. That how I feel sometimes when I’m fighting against @ZeroSyndicate 's Shago in ranked. I understand what’s happening and I think I understand his frustration, but I’m not asking for thier removal.
In the combo system, yes. When they are the first hit (or first special move) in a combo, then no.
Virtually all staggers are heavy. The only ones I can think of that aren’t are Gargos’s light reckoning and some of Tusk’s medium buttons.
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So what would people improve about the current gameplay? Vlad doesn’t like flipouts or staggers and while I’m not sure there’s a ton of reasoning that I understand, it’s all good.
What else would people like to see improved in terms of gameplay? Big or small. Anyone have some more ideas? Anything that would make the gameplay more fun in the slightest? Any characters that you think could benefit from some changes?
If the answer too all of that is no, that’s fine. Just looking to have a substantive conversation since some seem to think the game’s not fun anymore and even if I disagree, is like to know more. As awesome as any game is, it can always be a little better, right?
The long range is supposed to be the added buff: it lets you hit the opponent from farther than their moves can hit you, so you catch them as they try to walk in range. Just goes to show how different the two games are: when you have moves like windkick, you don’t really need to walk in that much.
If you wanted to have the same kind of effect in KI, then maybe if you shrunk the hurtbox and gave the move weird priority so that moves from far away wouldn’t trade? Like imagine if Mira’s MP or Aria’s MK would just stuff Windkick 100% percent of the time (I don’t mean to pick on Jago, but Windkick is the only forward moving special move I can think of right now).
This would change the balance of a lot of characters though, so a lot of them might need to be reworked around this, so if the devs were to try this I think it would be more of a sequel thing than a new season thing.
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I don’t see how this is a footsies thing, unless your objective is to make combos shorter so that you play neutral more often? However, a bad side effect of doing this is that you won’t be able to punish opponent’s mistakes for lots of damage (manuals do less damage and take more time than auto-doubles), which I think will have the opposite effect on footsies than you think will happen. People will be more reckless because they know your damage potential off their mistakes will be much less.
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Again, I think your goal is to make the game more like SF (which has relatively few cancelable normals), but in the case of KI, people will just… not use these normals, and instead use normals that lead to the combo system, because that’s where the real damage is. You’d have to make these non-cancelable normals absolutely ridiculous to compensate, which really messes with the balance of the game, and would incite some serious rage from a lot of people who think they want footsies… until they get a game with godlike normals and they can’t move.
Also, I’m not entirely sure why a normal’s cancelability changes footsies that much. I can still play footsies with cancelable normals, no? If a normal isn’t cancelable, then that just means if you block it I’m at -2 in the mid range, rather than canceling into something that puts me -3 or -4 point blank. This might promote slightly more mid-range fights, but probably fewer than you might think.
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Infil, sometimes I’m just really jealous of how much stuff you know.
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Actually yeah these don’t have much to do with footsies as much as increasing the amount of neutral. But to address your points specifically:
Well if we are talking hypothetical changes I figured damage could be scaled accordingly. (I also personally think that combos do too much damage but that’s just my personal taste).
That’s kind of the point. My thinking was that it force people to try to use their shorter range normals, which means they need to get closer in, unless they want to use a forward moving special which puts them in the negative if its blocked.
Just want to reiterate that that’s what I was trying to do. I’m not saying that these changes are good for the game, but some people were saying they want a more neutral based game like SF, and so these are some of the design elements that I thought could be borrowed without turning the game into a SF clone.
Really the only thing that I think really should be taken from SF (particularly SFV) is the blocking animation. KI seems to have a very subtle effect for blocking compared to some other games, and there were honestly times wasn’t sure if I was getting hit or not. SFV has this ridiculously large effect when you block an attack, so it’s super obvious whenever something doesn’t connect.
more guaranteed damage. Maybe only make linkers and Special->ender breakable.
Says the guy who complained Shago is too weak, wants auto doubles to not be breakable.
Nothing suspicious about this.
[spoiler] Seriously though that’s kind of ridiculous [/spoiler]
Well, again, the thing that scares me about this is that it really prioritizes one chance if a short combo can do a lot of damage. I think the KI combo engine works only if long combos and short combos work together in harmony; that is, you do some shorter combos to try and convince the opponent to break early, then you do long combos to capitalize on that, and constantly mixing and matching is hard to deal with. So I think in order for the KI system to work, long combos (and therefore, some period of time with no neutral) needs to be part of the game. Whether a player thinks that’s bad or not is up to him, I suppose… I personally like long (within reason), damaging combos. It allows for cool moments in fights, for example… more opportunities for mistakes/drops or resets, ie it promotes creativity and the human element a lot more than short combos.
Yeah and this is, I think, the concern for me. Every other game, from Tekken to Guilty Gear to Smash to KoF, is proud of the unique brand of neutral they bring, and I think KI’s neutral is actually a lot more similar to SF (than these other games) than some people would like to admit. But for some reason KI players always wish their game was something else, other than what it is. I kinda… don’t get that.
Maybe it’s because they’ve been convinced by someone that SF is the one true way to play fighting games? Or it’s the big brother that every other game wishes it could emulate in gameplay style? But in reality, SF is just another style in a genre full of cool styles, with its own unique (but no doubt severe and dominant) styles of ■■■■■■■■ that you have to deal with if you are a SF player. I dunno, I guess “grass is greener” syndrome or something.
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Plus SFV have their own versions of flipout and stagger, its just called air resets and crush counters. People wanting KI to be SFV will just complain about the same thing.
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In advanced i’ve been playing slot of Injustice so . But also I think ki is fine and doesn’t need any changes but if I had to.
-First strike gives bar of meter like NRS games why cause added tension In the beginning of the match
-Push block for a bar to help get out pressure and might be better for characters who don’t like shadow countering and just wanted to them away.
- Make air combo breakers cause flip outs just like grounded ones.
Only the last I really really want but I think the other two would be cool and impactful changed.
How would ya’ll feel about these changes?
From what I keep seeing this “footsie” argument is that, from the implied reasoning I’m assuming from those who want better “footsies”, Street Fighter should always be the model we should base it off of.
Okay, I get it, fine.
Perhaps it’s because the game is still going on after such a long hiatus, no one knows how it was back in the day because Rare never really continued past KI2 and base it off that.
In my mind, KI has it, but if people can’t precisely state WHAT their definition of this concept is in KI, how to make it better, different from the fray, you don’t have an argument.
“Change footsies to be better!”
“Why?”
“Cause there’s no footsies in this game!”
“How?”
“It should be more like Street Fighter!”
“What are Street Fighter footsies?”
“More grounded, whiff punishment!”
“Okay, that’s in the game.”
“But there are too many juggles, and things like that!”
“Yeah, but Street Fighter has that.”
“Not to the extent of all characters!”
Sigh
I get why people have gripes with how some of the system is. I get it, really; but this isn’t the biggest issue that KI needs to have a better focus into it’s next iteration. I want to, and currently, play KI footsies. Not another games’ version.
- I bear with characters that have can interrupt strings and combos whilst in neutral. I truly think, next iteration or going forward, to have this gone from play. Leave it in control of the player. I know, players can effectively do things to eliminate this, but on a competitive aspect in an offline tournament, I’d like to have the focus on the player more than anything. I can tolerate things like the interrupting hail or scarabs when moving in, I’m cool with that.
- Continue to innovate on the characters. This is absolutely necessary in my mind. I’ve learned to appreciate KI’s abstractness in it’s characters and how they can play so entirely different from each person that it puts MANY fighters to shame. This has to continue strong.
- Focus on making the game’s mechanics ready from the start. I’m fine with adapting, really am. I’d like to see all the game’s mechanics ready from the start so we get what we have. If we have these all at the start, people know what we’re getting. To this day, we don’t have information, outside of character info, listed openly in the dojo on staggers, flip outs, or recaptures.
- Enhance training mode. Follow examples in Street Fighter and KoF, their specific recording, frame looking mechanics are really nice. Enable a slow mode to watch these things and strings go by so we’re better prepared for other players.
- Enhanced replays. Able to search the network to watch other players and things like this. It gets a lot of mileage.
- More options for colors and costumes early in the game’s life cycle.
- Give more uses for Instinct. Both using a single move that uses it all and just the enhanced ability you get. Example: Shadow Jago
- One studio working on the game. Easier for one team to squash bugs than trying to work on The work of someone else.
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People here complaining on KI as if SF5 was good game lol.
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