Full Cast’s Frame Data Link: https://t.co/ap8Z5k5aSt
Bookmarked. Thanks Fincho!
A cursory skim-through looks like a lot of this was directly ripped from Training Mode (or is otherwise outdated), a ton of which is actually inaccurate. I mentioned it on Twitter but I’ll mention it here too:
It would be beneficial to collaborate w/ @Ziarist. And maybe give everyone a disclaimer that your table is rife w/ incorrect data. It’s important for frame data tools to be accurate.
I appreciate your hard work and dedication to the game. I know projects like this are an exercise in tedium, so I don’t want you to think I’m just knocking on you for jollies.
Here’s the thing, I understand what you’re saying in this respect, I really do. The data that you’re showing me comes from the sense of what Frame Data is to Street Fighter.
Startup = Startup Frames and the first Active Frame. Example. Jago’s Frame Data of his close medium kick in the game says it’s a startup of 5 frames, whereas the sheet you’ve linked me details it with 6 startup frames - 5 startup frames and the first active frame.
I look at the data in the links you gave me and it is indeed correct in this way of looking at it. I decided to go with the way that it was detailed in the Training Mode, including adjustments noted in previous updates. Both ways articulate frame data enough to describe it, I just decided to follow with the game’s definition of what frame data is considering that this is what we have to work with.
Both ways are correct, nevertheless. One just needs to provide the appropriate knowledge transfer between the two and they will be good to go.
Oh no, you misunderstand me. I’m not talking about method of notation, I’m talking about a whole heap of the actual startup/active/recovery frames from the Training Mode data actually being incorrect. When the team does rebalancing between patches, sometimes they’ll affect a characters frame data in one way or another (adjust advantage or active frames or whathaveyou), but rarely, if ever, does the the training mode data get touched post-release of a character. As an example, albeit relatively recent, you have Omen’s EX.Slide listed as +2, but it’s actually -8. If you transcribed your full data from the Training Mode, there are bound to be these sorts of incorrect entries throughout.
EDIT: But I see Jago’s EX.Fireball listed as -6, which should be correct as of 3.6 IIRC… so maybe some stuff gets adjusted in the Training Room data and some they forget?
EDIT2: After looking through a bit more of your guide, I’m actually sort of confused at how correct so much of it seems. Am I misremembering the EX.Slide data changes? Did they go through and do a major frame-data correction pass that they didn’t mention [@TheKeits] ?
I remember earlier this year coming across a bunch of incorrect data in the Lab, but I can’t remember specifics, nor find the notebook I was using at the time (a lot of stuff has gotten shuffled about and packed away in the last year)…
It’s very HELPFUL! Thank you so much!
Noted, I’ve been making changes as things get updated. It’s an ever evolving spreadsheet.
I’ll be making changes as much as possible/needed.
Right on. Sorry to just pop out with the critique, I know you put work into this project and I don’t mean to seem unappreciative. I’ll pick through it and if/when I spot a flaw, I’ll let you know (along w/ the correct data).
I mean, I’m no mega-whiz, but some things I know, y’know?
Thanks though, for putting this together. It’s an impressive undertaking, one that we need in a bad way. Science-minded players and frustrated casuals alike, REJOICE!
can you do one explaining and going in depth about frame traps?
I can post a video explaining frame traps using SFV as an example? Or are you looking for a KI related in-depth vid?
either will do
10 days! 10?! And I’m just now hearing about this now? Why!?
Oh, and thanks Storm.
Cool stuff…good to know.
Inable to make any new material as I’m in the process of moving.
I’ll be listing out ideas when I get somewhat settled!
if I understand this right, then a frametrap is basically a move that comes out faster than other moves for one reason or another during a “lull” in combat.
So Meaty MK -> LP on wakeup should be a frame trap because Meaty MK is + on block and LP comes out faster than any other move except for THEIR LP, BUT since you’re + on block, your LP comes out +frames faster stuffing theirs?
Sounds right to me, but I’m not the expert…
It’s a way of leaving a brief gap in your offensive to catch people who are pressing buttons during your blockstring. It doesn’t have to be a + move. The most common example is Jago’s M. windkick
Jago’s M. Windkick is -3 on block. If you try to use a LP(5 frames startup), you would be faster than him pressing the same button, but if he does a DP(3 frames startup), he will stuff any normal you try, since the DP has invulnerability and has 3 startup frames. This also works for throws attemps, since DP beats them.
So you should just block? No, because he could just go for a throw.
Jago, in this scenario, has good tools to keep you frame trapped, even with - on block move.
DP’s are two frames of start up and active on frame three no? I think it was that way, I recall any DP character could also punish Jago’s medium windkick.