yea sure but i could make it even more clear then. a good fighting game with super mario 8-bit graphics? or a good fighting game with next gen console graphics? as graphics is subjective there is still certain types of styles, fashion, trends that appeal to larger crowds of people so you can still put a grade on it by judging from what people generaly like
Are we still talking about KI? I surely hope not, otherwise weâre spinning the slick yarn of hyperbole.
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Just to make sure Iâve got this clear⊠are you asserting that KIâs graphics, in their present state, are poor enough to turn away potential players?
yes, more or less, but im not talking about pixels and shaders. im tallking about animations and oomph factors, im not trying to change the game just add a few elements here and there that would make it more complete. i quote. Iago407
now thats just a part of my point. the game doesnt have to change in any way, just add a few things that would make other peaople open their eyes to the game.
I am amused by the amount of talking past one another this thread generated as it went on - kudos to @Marbledecker for bringing it back on target.
To answer your original questions TC
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Iâve always generally liked KI particle effects, as theyâre interesting visually and completely over the top. There are only a few rare occasions when Iâm kind of like âI just flat out didnât see that coming because their was an exploding firecat covering it upâ, and even then I tend to be more amused by it than anything. Iâve also always been of the mind that KI is pretty underrated in terms of animations and impact - I think Hisako or a Sadira lvl four (or pretty much anything Wulf does) looks like it hurts a LOT more than anything that happens in SF and even in MK, aside from probably the x-rays and certain charactersâ throws. Compare an Aganos poke or an Orchid low to the kind of awkward-looking low pokes that MKX uses and tell me KI doesnât look like it hurts more overall. I know that not everyone feels that way, but thatâs honestly always been how Iâve seen it.
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Iâm not really against adding more âflashâ to the gameâs enders as they scale, but Iâm emphatically against any changes that would affect the pace of the match, or anything that would seek to go back and change either the S1 or S2 characters ender animations. I view any attempt to spend time recreating and tweaking animations of the existing cast (within the framework of the current game) to be a waste of time and resources that are better spent building these things for awesome new kick-â â â characters. The original character animations arenât broke (and in my opinion generally look really cool), so Iâm against the devs going back to touch up content that already exists, works well, and looks good to begin with. They should spend their time making new content for people to buy - not trying to touch up old content that by-and-large has already made its money.
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Musical ultras are cool, and I like most of them very much. Cinematic ultimates (ala Shadow Jago), if they ever get added, would probably add some of the flash that youâre desiring to end the match. Iâd like ultimates to make it into the game, but it honestly isnât something thatâs a priority for me. Certainly would use them if they were in though, and I admit KI could probably use some of that cinematic flair, if only to entice new players.
And I think itâs important to remember that a lot of the tradeoffs that people often knock KI for (animations, overall graphical fidelity, etc), is largely a simple reality of what it means to work on a game with a small team under often-punishing deadlines. MKX and SFV are being made by large teams with millions of dollars behind them, with more time to launch than either DH or IG has ever had to push out one of their seasons. Thereâs also the simple fact that both games are simply coming out later - youâre not going to match that level of visual fidelity without retooling the engine to take better advantage of the hardware. The gaps in visual quality between first and second and third generation games of any system are often considerable, and in that respect KI is no different. To be honest, Iâm actually pretty impressed that I like the look of the game so much compared to those other franchises - I think theyâve done a great job âcoveringâ a lot of that with fantastic art direction.
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How to make the game perfect:
No inappropriate guest characters (Rash). But since he is confirmed, make him a hidden character.
More new original characters aside from Kim Wu, Tusk and Gargos.
Bringing 1 Ultimate per character functioning on all stages.
New game modes
And there you have it.
Well let me see if I can put it in this way. Say you have game, a game that has these fantastic graphics. BUT!!! the gameplay was god awful. when these graphic judges buy the game for graphics and play this game. They realized the game is awful with gameplay they take the game back and get a full refund.
Also if I had to choose Iâd lookf or games that can give me a full fun factor. Heck Iâd still play Primal Rage if given the chance and itâs graphics are dated compared to what we have now.
Now if I had to choose a good game does not need to be like MKX graphics wise.
Is that the answer you were looking for?
In my opinion, KI is fine so far, doe sit need more? Yes it does However its sodding okay and one of my friends is already looking forward to a PC release of the game as we speak.
So youâre not saying that they use flashy effects to mask imperfections, but you feel like they added them because, without the flashy effects, the moves maybe wouldnât look as good? Iâm confused, because it reads like thatâs exactly what youâre saying. Can you clarify?
Iâm confused. How does having less flash give you more control over whatâs going on? Also, youâve accused some fans on here of not being able to see past their own fanboyism, yet youâre proposing your ideas like theyâll automatically appeal to the public more. What if people donât think that what youâre proposing will appeal to the public more? To me, that has nothing to do with fanboyism and more to do with peopleâs opinions on not only what makes the game good, but what makes it appealing in general, not just to KI fans.
Iâm trying to reconcile these two statements, because Iâve seen you do this throughout the thread. On one hand, weâre talking about make enders look cooler and stuff look more unique, and on the other hand, youâre talking about wanting less flash. So which is it?
No one got anywhere by using anecdotal evidence to support their opinion. Whether you have two friends or twenty that have said stuff to you about KI, it doesnât support your opinion the way you think it does. A few of your friends and some comments on gaming sites do not equal âpublic opinionâ for a variety of reasons.
First and foremost, Iâd be shocked if some of the people saying the game looked like garbage on gaming sites werenât Sony fans looking to take a dump on a game thatâs exclusive to their competitor. So there is such a thing as context when it comes to how we read and interpret opinions, especially in the gaming space, where opinions can stem from a variety of causes.
The flipside of the coin could be Xbox fans who want to praise the game because itâs an Xbox exclusive, however I donât really see a lot of posts that indicate this particular brand of bias. These days, when I see news on KI on IGN or Game Informer or other sites, most of what I read is from KI fans saying positive things about the game, with some other fans mixed in saying stuff like âI wouldnât buy an Xbox One for this, but it looks coolâ or âman, wish I could play this some day.â
I donât know where youâre getting this legion of commenters that think the game looks terrible, but that hasnât personally been my experience when viewing KI articles. Even the fighting game fans that used to rag on it back in the day⊠The Capcom elitists⊠I donât see them piling nearly as much trash on KI as they used to. This game, to me at least, has scratched and clawed its way toward respectability in the fighting game community. It still has its share of detractors, but not nearly the same number as when it was shown off at EVO 2013.
Again, youâre going from talking about adding a some flash to enders and making the ultras look more appealing to basically implying that the game looks so bad from a general graphical standpoint that it actually turns people off with how u-g-l-y it looks. You honestly believe that?
This is a completely different thing than what you were talking about in your original post. Now youâre not just talking about adding some things here or there to make the game perfect. Now youâre talking about overhauling the whole graphical engine because it looks so bad. Is that what youâre saying?
But drilling down to specifics here, you really believe that some over the top particle effects are so hideous that they make someone with a completely neutral opinion on the game look at it and say âoh thatâs too much chaos, I donât like it. This gameâs not for me.â
Yet on the flipside, youâre advocating for more flash in other areas, because you think that will somehow make those same neutral people say âoh wow, look how cool that move was, I have to play this!â
I dunno man. Iâm finding your opinion a bit perplexing here. Iâm not trying to attack you at all, really. Weâre just having a conversation here, and I do agree with some of the stuff that youâve said, as I stated above. But Iâm a bit confused on other points, as they seem somewhat contradictory.
If I have to be more clear than here it is: I donâ care about the gameâs graphics so long as the game is fun. If it looks fun Iâll want to play it
yes yes and yes i understand ofc i aswell would prefer a game thats fun and good before a good looking game that is bad⊠but what you guys dont understand is that i am not talking about what you as a ki player think about the game, im talking about the people who hasnt played the game. you are straying out of the topic. if you havent played a certain game before, all you know about it is how it looks, then you can only judge it by how it looks. and thats whats gona make you buy it. if the game looks like shitt but is fun you wouldnt know cus you wouldnt even try it cus it looks like shitt.
That is why i asked the question, you are straying away from my topic. âDo you whant a good game with good graphicsâ or âdo you whant a good game with bad graphics?â cus ofc i wouldnt care about the graphics if the game is good, but if i know nothing about the game in itself i can only judge it by how it looks. Im talking about the people who know nothing about ki, but are juding it by how it looks. But Jeffron doesnt get what i mean, he answers my question like a polititian (straying away from the topic) i mean all im asking for is changing a GOOD GAME WITH SOSO GRAPHICS/ANIMATIONS TO A GOOD GAME WITH GOOD GRAPHICS/ANIMATIONS.
ouh god where do i begin here since uve missinterpreted so much of what im saying⊠for starters i dont even understand why i would need to defend myself here since im only asking for better animations with more variations in looks, and this is in fact from my own point of view but also from other peoples point of view, why im talking about fanboyism is becaus i infact feel like i have to defend myself here just because the fact that im expressing my by right own point of view of bad aspects of the game. These bad things im mentioning isnt even gona affect the game! as ive said in an earlier comment the only thing that i can agree to would maby change the feel for you guys is the flashing lights with each hit. but i dont like that and im also a killer instinct player just like you, but i just dont like that. But i can see passed that. other than that im only asking for better animations and cooler looking finnishers and ultras with abit more variation to em, and by variations i dont mean different setups or different cancels or songs. i mean different animations that would stray away from ure normal special moves.
also my use of the word âflashyâ might not be correct and by that it is missunderstood but this is what i mean:
The flashing lights that goes on on hes heavy hits hurts my eyes and it makes the game look messy in my oppinion and others, i am not alone on this whatever u say. i mean you can barely see what glacius is actualy doing, hes making hes fist big or something but then it dissapears behind flahy explosions. yes me as a ki player can easilly see that thouse are heavies and thats whats important for me to win, but for the untrained eye (none ki players) you only see explosions witch for some people doesnt look to good. This is what i mean when i talk about flashy lights and bad animations, you cant see whats actualy going on behind thouse flashy explosions if ure not a ki player ureself.
come back to me if there is something i didnt answer here that needs further clearing
that is pretty much what i mean. think of it like baking a cake, ure not happy with the result, or atleast not as happy as you could be, u feel it needs allitle bit more. and by more you cover it with some wipped cream and voila you have a fine cake that tastes ok and ure happy with it. But the cake could have been better without the wipped cream if you only knew how to make it taste better without it. but you didnt know what other ingredients could have made it more tasty or witch baking methods would have made the cake more fluffy and juicy without the wipped cream.
I feel like they havent masked the punches deliberetly, but instead just put some wipped cream over them to make them look ok.
im sorry my eng isnt good enough for me to express my points, working on it
im acusing peaople who talks aobut the game from their point of view, defending things about the game witch i havent touched. When infact my suggestions minus the flashy particles/lights wouldnt change anything to our precious game⊠except maby reach a broader audience, or not, and thats what we are discussing here.
yet again i feel like i need to defend myself when im only speaking of minor changes to the game that in the end would make it look better, and yet again minus maby the flashy lights wich you all here seem so found of.
why would you even have to say that? by me mentioning other peoples point of view of the game i have no room to speak here? that is what ive heard and it has also come to me realising that the game infact does look abit messy and hard to get a grip on for the untrained eye. And i feel a big reasson why this game look abit messy for the untrained eye is because the repetitive and stiff animations pluss the flashy lights
I see no reason why you have to feel threatend or feel like youâre not being allowed to talk. People will disagree with you, thatâs no reason to feel youâre being attacked. Heâs simply stating that the way in which you evoke your point of veiw doesnât seem as concrete as you make it out to be.
People will always have differing opinions. No reason to feel liek youâre in trouble for having so : >
Unless youâre usin this topic post as a disguise to tweak the game in your personal favor : P
Not even, your topic is about KIâs graphics.
I already answered you. I donât care so long as the game is fun and will toon to my interest. Itâs not the answer you want but thatâs it. Deal with it. I donât care how awesome the game with âbetter animations hasâ if it doesnât tune to my interest I may not consider it unless I feel like trying something new.
Also: You would not know me as a person so in theory, you would actually have no idea how Iâd feel about KI if I was someone who never even herd of it. But considering that I got into KI in the first plact because of Riptor. I think I would sure as hell want to because of the diverse cast and the game looks like effing fun! and thatâs going by myself in general. The game would attract the me whoâs never played KI because it tunes to my interest in its content. I probably would never of cared how it looks. And thatâs as close to theoritcal me as you will ever get because I know, me. You donât : p
People are very different you have no way of knowing whether theyâll like a game or not until you see it for yourself. For all you know your suggestions may make it worse. Just saying in theory it can go either way. But that is my opinion
Okay First of all, making a lot of assumptions about me and my brother here. You also donât know him as a person so how would you know how he would react to KI if he never saw it?
Second I have seen games like COD, Battlefield, ect. They have good graphics but they do not appeal to me. Why? because they are not the kind of games Iâm looking for. These games may dump loads of cash on the developers every time they make one but it doesnât mean everyone will find them appealing. I even disregarded Halo 5 because some of gameplay features I liked on the others was not going to be in Halo 5.
Then again itâs easier to make assumptions when people donât agree with you. You also accuse people of being fan boys for disagreeing with you. He told you that he would not care about graphics unless the game was good.
But we look for more than just looks in a game. We look for
1: the type of game
2: gameplay features
Halo 5 for example had good graphics but what made me not want to touch it was the lack of Elites and Split-screen.
You say he is ignoring you, or straying form your question, and you compare him to a politician, yet you are trying to make him say what you want him to say to get him to agree with you or to show how wrong he is, just is like some people in the news media.
Weâve met someone who tried to do the exact same thing during the anticipation of Riptor and we debated with this guy about weather Riptor should have feathers not.
Your topic is about graphics.
If the development team feels the animation is stiff they can fix it.
Yeah, minor changes. I know what youâre proposing and Iâve said what I agree and disagree with. Of course you have just as much right to speak here as anyone else. No doubt.
Itâs cool man, weâre just having a discussion here. Weâre not going to agree on everything and thatâs perfectly fine. I donât think the game looks messy at all.
I think some animations could stand to be shored up a bit, but I find it odd that you seem to have gone from âthis game needs a few minor changes to be perfectâ to using terms like âmessyâ and asking someone if they wants good game with good graphics or a good game with bad graphics, as if KI has bad graphics (zone sure if youbmeantbto imply that or not).
But all of that is beside the point. My issue (that you quoted above) was more with the way that you appeared (from where I was sitting) to be invoking some sort of general public sentiment to support your opinion, which, as I understand it, were conversations you had with friends and Internet posts you read.
When you start saying âthese people agree with meâ and âthose people agree with meâ it begins to sound like youâre using some sort of vox populi argument, as if your opinion is somehow more valid because a majority shares your view, even if that majority appears to be based on two types of anecdotal support, one of which (the Internet), I havenât personally found to be the case.
But look, if you werenât trying to talk people in to your way of thinking by saying that others think the way you do, then itâs cool. Even if you were doing that, itâs fine, itâs just not a very compelling argument to me, if thatâs actually a part of your overall argument.
Sorry if I put you off or made you feel like you had to defend yourself. Thereâs no lynch mob here. No torches and pitchforks. Iâm up for discussing your ideas provided you can leave your assumptions about peopleâs fandom in check. Do that, and Iâll try not to make assumptions about how youâre attempting to support your argument. 
So back on topic⊠Would you care to drill down to some specifics with regard to your ideas? What would a better Ultra look like to you? Also⊠What animations specifically would you shore up? You said certain things actually might turn people off to the game: Could you provide some character specific examples of what you mean?
yea i see where youre comming from and i can understand that i can sound like im trying to change the game for my own personal prefferences, but then again all our oppinions here are from our personal preferences and we all talk about things we like and dont like in this game here to reach out either to the creators of this game or to get support from others who think the same way. But these changes im sugesting are based on what other people have said about the game and it was sickening me from the start cus i freakin love this game yet there are people out there who hate on it even though theyve never tried it before, so thats when i came to a conclusion, maby this game isnt perfect, maby this game needs some changes here and there to apply to a broader scale of peaople. and that is why im trying to get people to understand my point thru other non players point of view. But i kinda feel i aint getting the responce im hoping for here, there are people who are dissagreeing to everything ive said, even though some of the things im saying isnt even gona affect the game in a bad way. people are talking about defending there own points of interest when there realy isnt all about that. Thats why im asking this simple question âdo you whant a good game with bad graphics or do you whant a good game with good graphicsâ cus thats realy what this is about and what we could discuss. im not talking about what made these guys play this game cus there are people out there who are not whilling to play this game for their reassons.
Ofc im not expecting people to like all my sugestions, but they are all parts of a debate. im just throwing something out there. maby this game does have to many particles flying around? maby this game does infact need som polishing on the animations? maby this game has potential to look more finnished? maby this game have elements that could use some more oomph? maby there are funnier ways to finnish of ure opponent instead of doing the same ultra ove and over again? maby the lvl 4 finnisher is abit repetitve and look just the same as a normal autodouble pumped up by some flashy lights or camera angles? so on and so on.
i feel its just to shallow to say things like âi dont agree to anything here blah blahâ i mean how can you not agree to improve animations?? how can you not agree to add more finnishers, doesnt have to be fatalities or anything like that but hey maby a second variation of the first ultra? But it almost feels like just cus ive mentioned streetfighter or mkx i get no responce, it kinda feels like a disscussion on the chat of twitch âare you a ki player? ok i dont agreeââŠ
sure i could return to the topic but i kinda dont feel like it anymore cus of the shallow responses or people who doesnt whant to understand what im sayin⊠not sayin all of you didnt⊠i might create a new topic on this later but as for now im tierd of this
1.Particles are a part of the gameplay. Letâs say Orchid. Normally, with her Rekkas,you can react and block. The firecats in instinct mask this and make it harder to see. Remove it and it becomes pointless.
2. Like Thunderâs Call of the Earth Ender? Fine with me.
3.Make it an option and everyone will be happy.