"Halo" TV Series Trailer! :D

Off-Topic
41

Yeah, but at the same time, finding a kindred spirit in another person doesn’t mean that they would just suddenly decide to just go at it. I’m fine with the kindred spirits aspect and having both John and Makee finding common ground and trying to understand one another, just not how it was done in 8 with them “getting some”. You can still have that have that kindred spirits aspect without resorting to s ex. Instead, they took the more juvenile fanfiction route. “Oh John, I’m scarred, you’re scarred, take me, big boy, even though we don’t know each other all that well, and in a very short amount of time!”, which in turn results in Makee removing her stupid finger sword and heel-turn post-coitus (“That was the best fifteen seconds of my life!”), only to swivel again after Halsey and Makee’s being tortured again with the electric baton.
This is also problematic in that both John and Makee wouldn’t really have much experience, if any with this kind of thing. There’s no suggestion that John in the show had ever been a romantic, nor that he would ever get physically involved in that way, and unless Makee had been involved with some member of the Covenant (ew) or Prophet (which would be kind of ironic in a way, but also double EWWWW!), chances are pretty high that neither would she.

He killed them accidentally, but at the time he was being attacked by said-ODSTs after some incident with gym equipment.

True, but given his position and his state of mind at the time this occurred, it would still be a war crime under the Geneva Convention. Even if he was furious with Halsey and what she did to him, he is still under the command of the UNSC, and even though John questions his place within it, he still respects the chain of command and is a soldier through and through. He knew the consequences of his actions; he wasn’t drugged or drunk, he was in a clear state of mind and was in a position of authority, something that he should have known from the very start, and because of that, what he did was inexcusable and would be a VERY serious criminal offense. It didn’t matter if Makee was the one who initiated, it was Chief’s obligation to have shut it down before it had gotten so spectacularly out of hand.
What p isses me off, though, is that, before this episode, this could have been a 7 or 8 of 10 show, but along with the Kwan stuff and with what happened, the show has pretty much s hat the bed. Unless the last episode really turns itself around, it’s probably going to end up as a 6 out of 10 for me, although it’s also possible the last episode might be even worse, causing the rating to drop.

In recent years, that’s a different story. None of that involved having s ex with prisoners, though, which is even more serious and NOT something for the UNSC to bat an eye at.

42

The way you’re reading this scene is so odd and you yourself are casting it in a juvenile light, not the show. It seems to me that you’re trying to force what you want onto the scene and episode as opposed to looking at it for what it is and taking things in the context of the characters, situation, and universe that we’re given.

What they did was very realistic given the circumstances and states of the characters, and coupling, provided it’s done based on emotional desire and need, can strengthen a bond significantly.

Makee is emotionally scared from her childhood, and having a near repeat experience of abuse with that electric baton was enough to anger, and frighten, her back along her earlier path, but she isn’t angry at John and still seems to hold respect for him.

You don’t need experience to follow emotional instincts and feelings.

Yes he did, but no he wasn’t. He forgot to put a safety pin back in some weights and the ODST’s nearly hurt themselves as a result. The ODST’s where angry and were going to assault him when a sergeant happened by and ordered them into the ring to work off their anger “constructively.” John of course took the orders seriously and saw this as a proper exercise. While in the ring, the ODST’s were absolutely looking to rough him up, and John killed one or more of them (can’t recall the number) simply because he did not know his own strength. He was completely pardoned for this, and the ODST branch as a whole developed a grudge against the Spartan-II’s for this.

This is the 26th century, with an entirely new government than modern times. Even in the core canon, I’ve never once heard the Geneva Convention mentioned, and we have no idea if this still exists or what the UNSC’s stance is on such things in either continuity.

We don’t know if this is a criminal offense, and even if it is, what are they going to do? Court-martial the super solider who is acknowledged as the face of the war-effort and the best hope to prevent species extinction? Considering they’ve left child abduction, abuse, and murder slide, it’s logical to assume they’d let this slide as well so long as John continues to perform.

No, none of it did. In the core canon, the Spartan-II’s have a reduced/repressed sex drive due to their augmentations. In the Silver continuity, all emotions are suppressed and controlled by those pellets. Which John removed.

43

Out of curiosity, is the morality of the Halo Universe presented from a black-and-white OR shades of gray angle? Is the Halo Universe black-and-white OR shades of gray/gray areas overall?

44

No, I’m looking at the scene and thinking about the context and it comes off as ridiculous. Even if I want to say this is some alternate Elseworld-style take on “Halo”, which is fine, even if I look at it objectively, it doesn’t stop me from noticing the very glaring and problematic details within the story. Sure, I admit that as a Halo fan, I do have a slight bias, but with that said, even if I were to watch with an objective lens, the whole thing came out of nowhere and felt incredibly rushed. Again, I don’t mind the kindred spirits aspect, but for them to just suddenly decide to have s ex when there is a VERY noticeable power imbalance, THAT is extremely troubling, and the idea that this should be romanticized is repulsive. Yes, both are troubled individuals, but Chief was in a position of authority, and because of that, it vitiated any consent on her part.

It isn’t.

Yeah, but it doesn’t make sense in the context of the show. There are various ways to strengthen a bond between two people, especially two damaged souls such as Chief and Makee, none of which involves intercourse. The filmmakers could have easily found other ways of making it work and compelling, but instead, they took the lazy and juvenile fanfiction route because they wanted to force that whole “star-crossed lovers” romance into the show in as quick a time as possible. It was an embarrassing and rushed mess that had no reason to occur at all. This is the kind of thing that gives fanfiction a bad name.

“Emotional” instincts and feelings aren’t going to prompt two people with little to no experience, two people who have just met and who have known each other for less than a few hours, to suddenly decide to copulate. This is John-117 we’re talking about, one of the biggest virgins in all of sci-fi media next to Judge Dredd - he’s not Duke Nukem. If they wanted to do a romance, there could have been other ways to have done that. I’ve seen fanfics do that better, especially without the whole prisoner thing. Personally, I’d have kept the relationship platonic rather than physical.

While that may be true, I find it EXTREMELY doubtful that the UNSC would allow for personnel, be it Marine grunt or officer, to have s ex with their own prisoners whenever they felt like it.

As repulsive as it is, they probably would.

45

Lots of shades of grey.

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46

As someone who has direct experience dealing with people who have mental health issues of varying types, including people who have come from abusive backgrounds, I’m telling you that such an occurrence is realistically possible. Whether you choose to believe that reality or not makes no difference to me.

For the show, strictly in terms of television, when Makee stripped naked in Episode 2 that clearly foreshadows that the character was going to have a sexual angle with one of the main characters, and very likely John. That’s usually how such narratives work.

I’m also curious to see what relationship develops between John and Kai, as there’s hintings there as well.

And that’s what it seems to come down to more than anything else, regardless of who I see complaining about this. John is not a virgin anymore, and the sensationalism and outrage all stem from the silver continuity’s character simply doing a basic human function. Something that, as Halsey put it, is very ordinary.

The fact that people are freaking about that is, well, sad in so many ways.

I have nothing further to say really.

47

At the same time lots of gray areas, correct?

48

Correct.

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49

Not really. Being naked isn’t really a sign that somewhere down the line characters were going to “get it on” like some weird Chekhov’s gun. In terms of John being in a romance, I’m not against it…provided that it’s done well and that it makes sense. I actually had thought a romance would be formed between him and Kai at some point. But the thing with Makee…it is so forced and wrong on so many levels. John has essentially r aped her; a prisoner of war cannot consent to stuff like this, and this show having the gall to present this as a romantic subplot is beyond repulsive. It is a spit on the face of Chief’s character, Silver timeline or otherwise. Again, if they wanted to do the whole “kindred spirits” thing, there are so many ways they could have handled that that didn’t involve consummation. What, a simple gesture or word of kindness is too much? Showing characters being compassionate or something as simple like holding a person’s hand, or making someone smile or laugh or showing the joys in life/humanity at its most hopeful and optimistic - that is something too taboo? Audiences are too stupid, cynical and s ex-starved? We’ve seen better with Chief and Cortana’s relationship in the games for God’s sakes - even though they aren’t technically romantically involved with one another, they cared enough about each other regardless, even in spite of the fact that they’re unable to consummate. And the fact that Cortana watched the whole thing with Makee made it even creepier. I suppose an argument could be made that the hormones released during said-consummation would have an impact on Cortana since she is a part of John and that she feels what he feels, but still, John getting it on with a prisoner of war and the show treating r ape as romantic - f uck that.

50

Meaning for one, Master Chief aka John/Spartan is NOT 100% honorable and noble as well as heroic and valiant and above all NOT a total good guy/hero then? :confused: :astonished: :exploding_head:

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51

Generally speaking, yes, though by what amounts differ in the two continuities.

He and the other Spartan-II’s (and Spartan-III’s) are victims used and exploited by ONI and the UNSC.

For John specifically, in the core continuity he was never lied to though and chose to continue serve and not to dwell on what was done to him. In the Silver continuity, he was lied to and used to a much greater extent, has now learned the truth, and is understandably angry and resentful.

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52

I watched the finale on Youtube. Wow.

That’s not just bad writing, that’s just bad.

I kinda want to say it jumped the shark. Normally, you have to wait until a few seasons in before you do that, but they did it at the end of the first. That’s gotta be a record. And it feels like the same bait and switch to an extent when Kevin Smith messed with the He-Man series. It feels unnatural, stretched beyond the original premise and is completely Halo in name only. Like they only wanted the Halo franchise in order to use it’s built in popularity to sell the show on a false premise, but just couldn’t figure out how to while trying to fulfill their vision. What it really feels like is they wanted a female Master Chief all along, but took a whole season to set up how it happens, and destroy the original character in the process.

I feel so bummed at this, and I don’t really want to talk about this show anymore, I kinda wished it hadn’t happened. It’s gonna now be infinitely harder for something mainstream of Halo to ever come out because I feel like this show has earned such a bad wrap.

If you enjoy the show, then I hope you keep on doing so, but I can’t. It’s obviously not my cup of tea, but as a core Halo game fan, I figured I would be part of the demographic they would want to like the show, but I just can’t…

53

I’m not sure about that. Thinking about it now, I think what the filmmakers had intended was, rather than make a straight-up war show as one would expect from a “Halo” adaptation, they wanted to simultaneously do a character study of John, showing the man underneath the armor, as well as a kind of “cinematic universe” by having Soren and Kwan and their stories. The Covenant and war is still there, but it doesn’t seem as prevalent imo. Makee…I don’t mind the idea of her character, but episodes 7 and 8 were s hitshows. While I liked a couple parts such as Keyes’ anger at himself, Halsey and the system, episode 8 was definitely a bad episode. I actually liked 9 much more in comparison, especially Parangosky’s talk with Chief.
In terms of the character study aspect, very hit and miss imo. I like that it got to interrogate some of the more dubious aspects of the UNSC, if not humanity, especially in terms of that whole thing with making kids into killing machines.
In terms of the Halo show as a whole, I don’t think it’s the worst TV program or the worst game adaptation. There were problems, but considering the really bottom-of-the-barrel garbage produced by Uwe Boll, I’d be reluctant to say this show is comparable. It could have been better.

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54

But what’s the point of “studying” the character if they intend to just end him after the first season? Why go through the trouble of doing this long game character analysis and breakdown if ultimately the plan is to just get rid of him after the first season. Even if the fans were to somehow like the very different interpretation of the Master Chief, we officially no longer have that now. So what was the point? So I feel like the “jump the shark” metaphor feels kind of appropriate. It’s almost as if they wanted Halo either what a totally different version of the Master Chief they knew the fans would hate, or just wanted to write him out of the story.

And even if he’s just “sleeping” honestly, this is just plain bad because it’s not John in the driver’s seat now, it’s Cortana, meaning these are Cortana’s exploits, and in what way do we identify with this character now? It’s a confusing mess to me and a sign the writers may not have had a good idea in which direction they wanted to go.

55

I don’t know about him being “written out of the story” per se. In terms of the point about the studying the character, I think it makes sense in that we get to question those elements within the game and see things with a little more nuance, if not some more of the morally grey areas to the UNSC that was often alluded to in the games and in the books. I guess the whole idea the show is trying to make (I could be wrong) is that, in this all-for-nothing stakes for humanity, John ultimately has to lose his in order to successfully prevail against something even more oppressive and dangerous than the UNSC, which is kind of sad to think about all things considered. It almost reminds me of “Jin-Roh”/Kerberos Panzer Saga to an extent imo in that it wants to question the nature of authority/fascism, but I think it could have been better done, just because, in theory (theory mind you), having John choosing whether or not to retain his humanity could have been a far more tragic and emotionally wrought moment imo, provided that the writing was up to par.
I don’t know, the show is a little weird to me, just because at times it does feel like it’s trying to avoid doing the whole jingoistic fist-pumping of that awful “Starship Troopers” movie (I actually recommend reading the book imo, just because it is so much better than that POS and is something that seems to have been a major influence for the “Halo” series), but at the same time, it doesn’t push the envelope far enough imo in terms of a deep exploration into the haunted soul of a man who was forced into becoming a weapon as a child, let alone the system or circumstances that justifies making him so. It touches upon those themes of trauma and indoctrination/brainwashing, but it doesn’t go far enough imo into being a fulfilling and emotional experience. Whether this is a limitation of the writing, or if there was behind-the-scenes drama, I have no idea.
In terms of Cortana taking control or the question of whether John is still fully in control, I don’t think John is “dead”. I think it might be possible to course-correct somewhere down the line in terms of how S1 ended.
I just hope it drops some of the more mystical elements and gets rid of Kwan (HATE that character!).
One thing I’d be interested in hearing more about is whether there’s deleted material, if not some of the behind-the-scenes stuff in terms of the writing process for the story and the episodes. It could be the case where early scripts were better than what was actually shot (you never know, just because the same thing had happened for a LOT of the “Resident Evil” movies).

56

John will come back, as himself. He’ll be “resurrected.” More-or-less, I think @Evolution has the overall intentions of the show and it’s respective structure pretty nailed down.

On an aside, as someone who works in TV production, I can tell you:

  1. Especially for a show being done during COVID-19 (and the pandemic is not over, inspite of the majority of people in North America pretending that it is), having scenes with a few characters, and doing “character studies,” as @Evolution calls them, is far more practical and safe than doing full on, larger battle scenes.

  2. Doing scenes like the large battle from Episode 5 and 9 would be the most complex, and significantly the most expensive and time consuming, scenes of the entire show. As such, they will be used more sparingly and will be a feature done a few times each season as opposed to the norm for each episode.

  3. Doing a show where it’s simple battle scenes, like in a Halo game, over and over and over would not work for television. That would entertain gamers, but not non-gamers, and the show is made for a wider audience.

As for the show itself, had I been the show runner and had I had full creative control, I would have done something much closer to the actual canonical lore myself instead of re-inventing the wheel. Looking at the overall product that we did get though, it’s not a bad show at all, especially when compared to other video game live action media. I give the show a 6 out of 10, personally as a whole.

57

I think the main problem with using the original continuity is that it hasn’t been in a solid place for a long time. Halo 5’s story is widely agreed to have been a massive misfire in direction, and Infinite’s first campaign felt more like an clumsy prologue-slash-apology than something that really brings the series forward. Then there’s all the expanded universe stuff, which has been known to get axed from canon. How can a studio confidently plan and fit new material into something so in flux, especially if it’s supposed to involve worthwhile insight and stakes compared to the games?

They could attempt to adapt the games directly, but that would probably end up just as controversial. Results aside, that they went for something completely new makes a lot of sense to me.

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58

Personally, I’ve never understood the hate for the story of Halo 5: Guardians. I found it was solid, great to see a new team of Spartans, and certainly felt very Halo. The fact that you actually got to see and play with Fred, Kelly, and Linda for the first time ever in-game was great, and the squad commands were a neat; a Star Wars: Republic Commando-lite.

When it comes down to it, and I finally get people to stop expressing emotion and actually be constructive about it, it always comes down to they simply weren’t happy that they only got to play as John a few times. That overall seems to really be people’s biggest issue with that game’s story.

For the Reclaimer Trilogy as a whole, it really isn’t a trilogy at all as each game’s story is rather self-contained and without an overarching focus and plot line. There’s no one primary antagonist or even enemy faction, which leaves a bit of a disjointed feeling. Having said that, given the state of the galaxy post-Covenant, it actually does make sense having so many different factions.

A lot of people also seem to forget/rose colour glasses the original trilogy. Halo 2 was heavily criticized for it’s cliffhanger ending, and many people were not happy with playing as Arbiter for over half the game when they felt they should be killing Elites. There’s was also the false advertising Campaign for the game as well, promoting the battle for Earth and saving it, which didn’t happen at all.

Halo 3’s single player, lore-wise, was also very weak compared to the rest of the franchise, with developments and plot points scaled back on, characters having completely different personalities, and opening cans of worms instead of actually tying up loose ends. As someone who’s been playing the franchise since 2003 and is a big, big fan of the lore, Halo 3 is by far the worst story of any Halo FPS out there. Having said that, it wasn’t awful either, as Halo in general is quite good.

59

There’s definitely things to criticize in Bungie’s entries too (especially agree on Halo 3 having problems), and I like the more personal and human direction that 343 goes for, but I’d agree with common sentiment that Halo 5 and a lot of things around it made way too many missteps.

Suddenly backtracking on Cortana’s death in Halo 4 with the Domain, which all lore beforehand stated was destroyed, was the foremost issue and really came out of nowhere. Before that there was the abandoned Spartan Ops storyline in Halo 4, which gets hurriedly wrapped up at the beginning of 5 and clearly not in the way it was intended. Then there was the Didact, whose resurrection was explicitly stated to be impossible in Halo 4 but was brought back in a later comic series, leading to fans to expect he would return. Then there’s thing like Halo Wars 2 bringing back the Flood for reasons that have nothing to do with the long-term interests of the IP.

My point being that I think these awkward swings in the direction of the core story indicated that there was no real plan in place for the franchise, leading to a general lack of confidence in an expanded universe. Infinite pretty stubbornly avoids establishing much about where the broader Halo universe is at currently, other than that it seems pretty bleak - it even backs out of committing to the name of the new Cortana. That’s why I think they did a new continuity for the TV series.

60

Some very good points and critiques, though several of them do not have to do with Halo 5: Guardians.

Cortana not being truly dead shouldn’t have come as a surprise to anyone. That was very predictable, and hinted in the reveal trailer for the game. Her becoming bad was also a fan speculation since the end of Halo 2 and was long requested.

For the Domain, the Forerunner saga stated it was destroyed, though that same saga changed a lot about the lore established by Bungie. Keep in mind all Forerunners are supposed to be dead too, but of course Halo 4 changed that.

343 Industries does seem to abandon plot lines or tie them up in odd ways, as I mentioned earlier, their trilogy really isn’t, but I fully understand why they nixed the Spartan Ops story line. Overall it wasn’t so good, nor was the whole game mode itself. It never got a second season because gameplay-wise, it was poor.

I don’t recall Halo 4 stating the Didact couldn’t be resurrected, though it was more he wasn’t actually killed by the Chief, recovered, and then was put down in the comics. Shame, as he actually would have made a good central antagonist for the Reclaimer Trilogy.

Halo Wars 2 is a great game and has a really fun story. I personally quite like the Banished and think they’re an excellent faction compared to the other Covenant splinter factions that we’ve seen. Adding the Flood in allowed a new faction to be added to the game (even if it was not playable), and the concept there is that they survived in quarantine in the ruins of High Charity. While I agree it’s a little odd, we don’t know how far the “tactical pulse” of the replacement Installation 04 actually went, and if it properly covered the Ark. It also does establish that the Flood are still around and a threat if they’re ever released from the Ark.

Again, though, much of the above has nothing to do with Halo 5: Guardians, except for Cortana not being dead, and Jul’Mdama being killed early in the game. So I still don’t understand what was so bad about the overall story in it.

I do agree with this. 343 does seem to be reactionary with their stories, which is a shame.

It’s implied the Weapon is taking Cortana’s name, so the character “lives on” in a different way.