"Halo" TV Series Trailer! :D

Off-Topic
21

In the show (Silver Universe), the UNSC and UEG is definitely more totalitarian. In the core canon, Halsey didn’t lie to the Spartans about their abductions and being forced into the Spartan program because she knew if they’d ever learned the truth, they’d rebell.

Ultimately she even gave candidates chances to leave, though they’d be mind-wiped if they did.

The children weren’t brainwashed, but they were conditioned/indoctrinated, which is quite plausible based on what they went through and at that age.

In the show, Halsey and ONI did keep all this a secret, and they did use tech to control the Spartans and turn them essentially into machines. It’s a big difference.

In the Silver Universe, it also doesn’t look like Humanity has Smart AI’s, and Cortana is a new thing entirely. Furthermore, she wasn’t designed to work with a Spartan and their armour, but rather to actually control the Spartan-host (though Halsey limited Cortana’s control ability). Again, that’s a huge difference.

I don’t mind any of it because I knew in advance that it wasn’t a direct adaptation.

22

Yeah, I recall that from the books as well. I think it’s interesting thinking about how this knowledge would have affected the Spartans, especially during a pretty critical period in human history. I mean, imagine realizing out you’ve been taken and replaced by a defective clone and that you’ve been made into a killing machine, doing all sorts of shady things for God knows how long - what would you do from that point on, especially with something like the Covenant at your doorstep? The Chief in all likelihood would stay because he wants to protect the human race, because he is a noble character who cares about humanity and takes his duty very seriously, but what about, say, some of the other Spartans, particularly those who are less noble, if not disillusioned, kind of like Soren? It’s interesting thinking about how things could have been different based on certain decisions made within the history of the “Halo” timeline.

Yeah, the chips were definitely not part of the books. I also recall that Cortana wasn’t the first AI, that there had been others before her, but the process in terms of creating them was pretty close, if not the same. The AIs weren’t used to control the Spartan host, that is true, but I don’t think it’s quite outside the realm of possibility that the AIs also had another function such as taking control of hosts if they get out of line.

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23

Considering the Covenant is trying to kill all of humanity, it makes sense that John would stay because there’d be no place to run otherwise.

I also don’t see John as noble, either in the main canon or the Silver Universe. For the main canon, he does what he does because he doesn’t know anything else. It’s all he’s ever done, what he’s been indoctrinated to do, and because that’s his part in the Librarian’s great plan to restore humanity to the Mantle.

For control chips in the books, I don’t recall that at all. What book do you recall it from?

24

Indeed.

Well, to a certain extent he is. When it was discovered that Johnson had an immunity to the Flood due to a condition that he had (Boren’s Syndrome), rather than let ONI dissect him, Chief elected to have the information about Johnson and his encounter/exposure to the Flood destroyed. Like Judge Dredd, Chief is a killing machine, but he does have some noble, even heroic qualities (although I think Dredd might be even harder as a person imo).

As far as I’m aware, the chips have never been in the books. I’m guessing you had read the original message I wrote? Yeah, sorry about that - that had been posted before I had a chance to properly edit it.

25

Keep in mind he was going to let ONI do their thing. It wasn’t until the end of the novel that he changed his mind and understood what Halsey was trying to tell him about saving every life.

Also note this is actually no longer canon, as Bungie never liked the Boren’s Syndrome/flood immunity content and overrode that. Johnson now escaped because of his training and abilities via Project Orion; that’s canonically how he escaped from the Flood as per some comic.

I personally prefer the Boren’s Syndrome method.

Must of been, as your correct. The Spartan-II’s in the proper lore have never been controlled through artificial means, though they are conditioned/indoctrinated.

26

Oh yeah, I recall that very well, and Halsey definitely had an influence.

Seriously? Huh. I had no idea that they had.
Project Orion? What’s that?
EDIT: ARE YOU SERIOUS?! They made Johnson a Spartan?! Okay, now this change pisses me off, just because they have retroactively changed the nature of the character. Before he was a bad-a$$ Marine who went through a lifetime’s worth of pain, but now his survival is the result of his being a Spartan? I mean, granted, Johnson is still a cool and sassy character, but his being a Spartan kind of undermines what made him so cool, which was as an ordinary human who gets by using Marine training and his wit, someone who is NOT Master Chief, but who still manages to hold his own regardless, even with a potentially debilitating condition.

27

Yes. It was around the release of the Halo Graphic Novel, so back in 2006 I think, Bungie (might have been Staten) stated they were not happy with the explanation of how he survived the Flood from Halo: First Strike and this comic showed the “real” way. He’s a part of the Orion Project, so he’s a “failed” Spartan.

I want to say the Boren’s Syndrome angle was referenced later as a cover story, to hide the existence of the Orion Project.

28

Yeah I saw that. I still don’t like that change imo.

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29

Agreed.

30

Episode 7 is probably the worst. Someone run over Kwan with a Warthog, please? I was also put off by the mystical elements that made me go “WTF?”, just because that wasn’t part of “Halo”. Like, this episode I will definitely concede has nothing much to do with “Halo”, especially in its look. Soren is probably the best part imo, but aside from that, Kwan has made me really unimpressed. Hell, I’d rather have more of Makee than f#cking Kwan.

31

We got to see a Monitor.

32

Well, another disappointing episode.

33

I disagree. I enjoyed it.

34

There were some parts I liked, but man, the one thing I did not expect to ever see in a “Halo” show is for Master Chief to make whoopee with a Covenant mole. I know that some Spartans are in a relationship, even married, but the thing with Chief and Makee is so problematic and REALLY f#cked up for a variety of reasons, most notably the fact that it would be a serious war crime since Makee is a prisoner, one who had been traumatized and held in captivity for years. And this show wants us to accept that it’s fine for people in positions of authority to do stuff like this, that this is “romantic”, even if Chief is as messed up as she is? F#ck off! I’ve never felt so p issed.

35

The main canon and the Silver Universe are very different things, and Spartans are extremely different between continuities.

In the Silver Universe, Spartans are essentially human-robotized slaves. They aren’t just indoctrinated, they have been lied to and controlled with those pellets. Halsey also sees them strictly as tools, as this Halsey really does seem to be a psychopath of sorts.

John is now free from this, he’s extremely angry, and experiencing life and emotions for the first time. One thing he shares with his core canon counterpart is they’re both broken individuals, but in different ways.

The show has also gone the route of having a few select humans function as “Reclaimers” instead of all humans, thus the link with Makee. The Forerunner artifacts have also dug up a lot of emotions in him and conflicting ones at that, and for her too. Thus I didn’t have a huge issue with the scene. It works and does make sense based on what the characters are doing and what the situation in the show is.

Keep in mind too, in the core canon, Cortana is heavily sexualized and her relationship with John has been suggested to be more personal than professional. Also keep in mind in terms of acceptance of stuff, in the core canon John has gotten away with murder of friendly forces with no reprisals at all (thus the reason the ODST’s don’t like Spartans), which is worse than a personal liaison (something Preston Cole may have gotten away with in the core canon himself).

There’s also no reason to be angry. It’s a TV show. If it’s not your cup of tea, there are plenty of other shows to watch or you can go and enjoy the Halo Campaigns and the core stories.

36

Halsey in the core Halo experience exhibits the same emotionless decision making typically present in psychopaths, so I don’t see how that’s different all that much.

This is news to me, as the reason ODSTs didn’t like spartans from the Fall of Reach novel was they considered them freaks of nature, unnatural science projects by the UNSC and didn’t like the thought of being replaced by half machine science project soldiers. I do not remember in any core Halo game or in any of the expanded universe have I ever found John acting against humanity in cold blood. He makes calculated decisions, but he doesn’t tend to be the sociopath people say he is, just is not very well adjusted to life without combat scenarios in greater service to mankind.

Regardless of the weight of one offense against another, it’s bad writing to depict any punishable offense by a military personnel to be handled as having no consequence. It’s why many on the Infinity were reluctant to help John when he acted against Del Rio’s orders. John would likely be court martialed for his actions, if he survived at all, but his actions devoted to mankind’s survival against the Didact were weighed by higher forces and found Del Rio to be out of order. However, at the time, there was tension knowing any who offered aid to John would they themselves be considered for punishment.

If you’re gonna write drama based around military decorum and order, then yeah, what Evolution said is a plot point that honestly can’t be overlooked, and is just bad writing.

I can understand being frustrated at things like this because it’s endemic of a lot of trends in writing in modern entertainment. Like if you compare the newer versions of star trek in those scenes to classics like TNG, you see a night and day difference in the way these scenarios are portrayed and are more believable and tense for it.

I remember this one old clip in which Data had become acting captain of the Enterprise for a brief period and Worf became his first officer. The two had a disagreement as to the best course of action for their current mission, and Worf openly contradicted Data when an order was passed down to be carried out. The two end up in a private discussion in a tense scene where Data scolds Worf for trying to overrule his acting command and Worf counters with a line of logic in which as the first officer, it’s his duty to present possible alternative courses of action. Data accepts this principle but sternly makes it clear Worf stepped out of line in which once a Captain has made a decision on his next order, the order is to be clearly followed by everyone involved down the chain of command, and Worf’s passive aggressive disagreement should have been addressed privately, if at all, and never in clear sight of the crew in order to keep up morale. Worf understands and admits fault in the situation, and in his apology, admits he still respects Data, despite their disagreement in method, and hopes to continue serving in the position he was entrusted.

Star Trek was not just a science fiction show. It had these military drama situations sprinkled in, with stakes of a smaller scale but still tense, important, and defined the characters involved, if only in a small, but very interesting way.

Compare that to how not just newer shows depicting military drama and politics are portrayed, but to how modern writing is done in general, and honestly, it feels like many of the newer generations of show runners and movie screenwriters seem less like they know what they’re doing.

Granted, no remake should have a 1:1 recreation scale, as there’s honestly no point. When the first time was done so well, why remake it at all? If a remake is your intent, then there’s a certain continuity you need to adhere to, but then you have potential to take some artistic license to do new things. But when the core concept is stretched in a way it wasn’t meant to, or is stretched beyond the acceptable boundaries, you have to ask the question, “Who is this show being made for?” It doesn’t feel like it’s for Halo fans because it went well past the Halo continuity by this point, and feels more like Halo in name only. If it’s for more broader audiences to be pulled into, and have them enjoy more Halo related content, only to find the Halo show and the other Halo media presented are so far apart in their premise, they’ll be done with Halo once the show’s run ends, as they either will or won’t be fans of Halo. Likely not because they’ll have their expectations set as one thing, and when they play the games, it’s a completely different tune, and in their minds, one of these things will feel like a blatant bait and switch.

37

Yeah, I don’t mind that.

I’m actually fine with that, as to a certain extent it would justify some things that happens in the games, if not adds some interesting elements to the “Halo” narrative.

While that may be true, for them to suddenly fall in love and for Chief to just sleep with her, it breaks credibility. I like the idea of Chief and Makee questioning their own humanity, even seeing something of themselves within each other and relating to each other, but to just suddenly have them in a romance when they barely even know each other? This is fanfiction at its worst. There could have been so many other ways to have handled that without them having sex.

The ODST incident was self-defense, and while murder IS a very serious crime, r ape is even more so, for it violates a person’s human dignity and integrity. Chief was in a position of authority and his prisoner was a mentally damaged woman - ANY and ALL forms of consent for sex would have been vitiated because there was a power imbalance. The military would NOT tolerate this kind of behavior at all, and Chief would (and should) have known better than to put himself in such a compromising position, even if his emotions weren’t being controlled or not.

I’ll say this about the show so far - Halsey is probably one of the best characters on the show imo. The actress who plays her is quite good in the role. Not crazy on some of the writing for her, but the actress is pretty good imo.

Indeed.

Generally, I don’t hate the show at all. I don’t think it’s the worst video game adaptation out there, nor do I mind some of the changes such as the UNSC being totalitarian (even in the books, despite what was written, I always got the sense that the UNSC were to a certain extent like that, even potentially morally dubious or tyrannical), it’s just when not done well those ugly aspects can rear their ugly heads up and ruin what could be a potentially good or great show. I love the idea of Chief questioning his humanity, his place within the UNSC and what Halsey has done to him. I like the idea of someone being a sort of mirror to his pain. Makee, I don’t entirely mind the idea of her character, a person brainwashed to be a tool for the Covenant that they would then throw away once she outlived her usefulness, but the way it’s been handled really irks me as a “Halo” fan, especially with this development in episode 8.

38

Actually no, they’re very different. In the core canon, Halsey truly does care about the Spartans, and develops even greater empathy to them as the franchise goes on. She still does her job, of course, but she doesn’t see them as disposable machines. She also loved Miranda.

She made the decision not to lie to the Spartan-II’s about their abduction and conscription and even gave them the choice to leave or not.

In the Silver Universe, Halsey sees people as tools, and her Spartans as units. Keep in mind she created Cortana not to interface with Spartan armour and augment the soldier, but to be implanted in the host and to take control of their actual body! Halsey planned to turn John into a complete puppet.

That’s on top of lying about their past, purposely repressing their emotions for the benefit of control and obedience, using her daughter, etc.

They are very different versions of the character, as are many in this show.

That’s what Silva said in Halo: The Flood, which came about because John killed those ODST’s in the ring shortly after his augmentation. That’s when the Spartan-II’s became known to the ODST’s.

Correct, but in the core canon, he was given choices. In the Silver universe, he was lied to by everyone and used. He’s been taken advantage of, and is a victim. Heck, with Cortana implanted into his body, she can and has shut down his mind to put him in stasis, and this is before Halsey would have enabled her to actually control his very body in full! John is furious at the people, and the organization that’s treated him so poorly in the Silver universe. It may be the same general character, but their backstory and motivation are completely different.

Aside from the fact that Silver John is rebelling against those who used him, keep in mind in Halo 5: Guardians, Palmer comments about John following orders with “The Chief does what he wants.” The Silver UNSC also needs John against the Covenant as they see the Spartans, and there only appears to be four of them currently in this continuity, as they’re only real defence against the Covenant. Because he’s an asset and an investment, they’re letting his transgressions slide. For now.

That was also a great TNG episode, by the way, and you touch on newer shows and a different style of writing, and as someone who works in the industry you have a very good point there. In general, shows are interested today in “flash” to capture wider audiences, as opposed to substance and believably. Look at the Star Trek movie reboots. Heck, look at modern Trek compared to the '90’s.

For the Halo series, it’s something they want to appeal to a more general audience, not just gamers. The show is a very different take on the material.

@Evolution I have to run to catch a train, but I’ll reply to you hopefully tomorrow.

39

Still kind of a $ hitty person, though, although later she does start feeling regret for what she’s done.

That, plus the incident with the ODSTs being killed definitely created tension between them.

But at the same time, though, I find this aspect to be kind of dubious, just because a six-year-old isn’t going to understand the implications of what she’d be asking of them or what it’ll mean in terms of the toll on them as people. Granted, some kids can be pretty smart for their age, even mature, but even so, they’re still kids. Even more, how are they going to explain things to the parents when said-kid had already been replaced with a defective clone? My impression from the books was that being a Spartan - a Spartan-II, anway - was a one-way trip with no hope of ever getting back to one’s family.

40

Given the story I disagree. They haven’t so much fallen in love as have found kindred spirits. Someone who shares their pain and actually seems to understand them. At a time when both characters are confused and angry, it does make sense. I’d also need to re-watch the episode, but I believe she instigated, not him.

No it wasn’t. He killed them, accidentally, because he was still adapting to his augmentation and didn’t know his own strength and reflexes.

He was, and again, I believe she instigated and he ran with it. He’s also mentally damaged himself. Again, his circumstances are completely different than core canon-John’s.

I don’t think he cared. Even in the core canon, he evidently “does what he wants” in more recent years. What are they going to do? John gets away with stuff in both continuities.

Silver John doesn’t care about military authority at this point, seeing as how he’s been used and abused. He no longer trusts the chain of command. And with good reason.

True.

Yes, but the kids can’t say they were lied to. This also let actual indoctrination take hold better, because they wanted to be there ultimately. Also not Grey Team, when they were younger, were given the chance to leave, but chose to stay.