Well somehow I made it to Killer Rank so I see this being pretty prominent even in those bigger tiers. If it’s just like Shago’s combo trait then it should be picked up real quick by everyone not just the beginner guys. I mean how many times have we seen people drop combos in tournaments. This is pretty much a good solution to that even on stages like Evo.
Hi all.
New to the forums and hopefully new to the game as soon as it comes out for pc. I’ve been reading up on KI, watching videos and guides and playing the crap out of kig in preparation for joining you lot.
However, this combo assist thing is what got me to create an account and actually talk on the forums. I strongly dislike it. Let me explain why.
Being an amateur still, and being in the process of learning how it all works, I was excited about all I had learned through videos and practicing on kig. One of the more difficult things I’m still trying to master is when trying to break through someone’s defenses, recognizing when one of my moves landed, when it was blocked, whether or not it was an opener and how I should follow up. It may be super easy for a lot of you, but I feel that it takes some skill sand quick reactions. With combo assist, that’s all gone. If anyone ever lands a hit on me, all they need to do is keep mashing buttons to get a combo. I, on the other hand, since I wanna learn the complete / normal way, will have to react and figure out the best way to follow up on a hit and then start my combo.
I guess what I’m saying is, it feels unfair that it even starts the combo for you off of a normal. You should at least have to recognize that you hit and deliver the input to start the combo. Once you’ve got the ball rolling, sure, give them a hand in order to avoid drops, but don’t make it so easy that any hit becomes a combo.
That’s my feeling anyway, and I may be wrong since I haven’t played KI yet, but I’d like to know what other people think about this. Would it be far fetched to at least expect players to do the opener and then have the combo helper kick in after your first auto double?
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This is actually what I was wondering about… How do you fit all of their linkers and enders into so few buttons? The answer: you don’t…
I just found out about all of this from, of all things, Max’s video. Sorry I’m late to the party, BTW - I was busy updating my games onto a new external HDD.
For me, this seems kind of like a dial-a-combo. Although you can mix it up with L, M, and H inputs, it still follows the standard combo pattern, which I think would make it rather easier to spot if a new player relies on it too much or almost exclusively (that is to say, not using any of the manual inputs that we’ve already largely learned).
I am a bit concerned about the speed of the input. Naturally, pressing a single button is going to be faster than doing a motion on the stick and then pressing a button, but that doesn’t actually change the animation speed (frames) of the actual moves - it just buffers them in, so to speak. I think it can change the pace of the combo as a result though in the sense that every move will come out as fast as possible with no drops, delays, interrupts, etc. in between. But that’s not game-breaking in any sense of the word; it’s just easier - and that’s the whole point.
I will try it for myself tomorrow (after I get some much-needed sleep) and form a better, more-informed opinion on it, but since I’ve already learned how to do just about everything input-wise, I’ll probably not need it, so regardless of how I feel about it, it’s not going to change anything for me.
Hahahah YES!!!
Basically its been implemented so TJ combos HORRIBLE timings dont drop any more LOL 
Actually you have access to all your enders (2 assist, all via standard control).
Jago example: Fwd+HP = Tiger Fury Ender, Fwd+HK= Endokuken Ender
That’s the assist ones.
If you wanted to do say the wind-kick ender, you can do QCB+HK just like always. Further, if you want to do the shadow endokuken ender, you still do QCF+2P- let’s say you happened to do MP & HP. Now here you are technically also pressing Fwd+HP, but the assist is lower priority so you get the right move- shadow endokuken ender. Play with it, you will see you have full control over all your enders 
I just want to throw a couple of thoughts out here to help people frame the discussion.
Keep in mind that combo assist mode is intended to help people and make the game easier for them. So, if you want to complain that it is making the game easier, that’s fine, but you really would have the same complaint about any handicap mode.
The way they have chosen to implement this, it is intended to assist people who can’t do fighting game move motions (quarter circles, Dragon punch etc) or figure out the timing of auto double to linker transitions while STILL ALLOWING them to participate in the L, M, H combo breaker two way interaction game. The point is for the new players to have fun and do cool stuff. YES this will increase the chances of a new player beating you. That is the point. It will not increase the chances of a decent player beating Rico Suave.
Some of the complaints I am reading seem to be focused on the fact that the assist mode actually provides assistance in doing “real” combos, rather than a gimped subset. The other half are complaints that it will be a barrier to people learning “proper” fighting game technique. It’s funny - that complaint has been lodged against KI since release because of the generally low execution barrier and the lack of charge of back-forward moves. The thing is guys, doing DP motions is not a transferable skill. It’s not a virtue in and of itself to be able to do this trivial and weirdly complex controller movement - and I say that as someone who has put in hours practicing it for more than 20 years.
Many of you are looking at KI as a training tool for building the FGC. But first it has to be a successful game that lots of people play. The people who use combo assist are not future FGC champions who are picking up “bad habits” because of the combo assist mode. They are future “former KI players” who are fed up with trying to do QCF motions while losing a game, who might actually stick with it if they can accomplish something. Most of them will never “move on” or “take the training wheels off.” And that’s fine as long as they are playing the game.
KI has been an experiment from the start. The stated goal from MS and DH from the beginning was to make a low barrier to entry fighting game that anyone could play. After the initial 6 characters, things started to get more and more complicated with Spinal, Fulgore and most of the S2 cast. I can really no longer say to my friends “look this is a pretty simple game if you remember a few things.” So this is needed to get us back to where we started. Is it perfect? Probably not. But most of us want to see KI keep going (for more seasons and more sequels etc.) and many of us want to see MS invest in more fighting game franchises. So if making the game easier for new players is going to increase sales and possibly help get the next season or fighting game the green light I am all for it. I just don’t think people on these forums realize how lucky we are to have this game at all. it wouldn’t surprise me at all to find out that MS is losing money on this game, and demonstrating that there is an audience and a market for KI is a huge concern.
Sorry for the rant. TL;DR if the “easy button”
will sell more copies of KI then I’m all for it, and you probably should be too. They have done it in a thoughtful way that makes sense for KI.
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JUST WTF 
Really ?
They made that game casual ?
Microsoft already did that garbage with Halo (they ruined Halo) and now they do the same with KI for the money ?
WTF after 2 years, is it that season 3 ?
Killer Instinct was perfect and serious like the real hardcore Fighting Games, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat …
But now it’s a joke ?
WTF mashing to get combo really ? My little brother can beat me now ?
Omg since the Xbox One, Microsoft ■■■■■■ up hard everytime… Why ? I can’t believe this happened, not to KI !!!
They ruined KI, this game was a real Fighting Game like the old days, no need to change it AT ALL !
■■■■ that trash.
Why the hell M$ you want me that i drop your ■■■■■■ piece of ■■■■ XB1so much like that ? SFV is coming and all i got to say is ■■■■ M$ for life.
Wtf is going on with that company straight out of the hell !!!??
Let me tell you, friend, if your little brother can beat you by mashing random buttons, even with combo assist on, you’re not very good at the videogame. Keep blaming the game if you like, though, that always gets people far in fighting games.
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Combo assist isn’t going to help anyone that doesn’t know what they’re doing beat someone that does. If they can’t execute special moves then their neutral game is heavily gimped. Think of it this way, Jago, Sabrewulf, Tj, Riptor, Omen, Shago, and Rash all already have button mashing combos, but no one spamming non-stop around the world or rabid doubles was ever actually winning against anyone that knew even the most basics of breaking.
I think KI was actually never that simple of a game… it just kind of seemed like it when there were only 6 characters at first and the combo breaking rules were a bit more simple (S2 added more complexity with air combo breakers, the 3-move rule, etc). You could kind of mash the buttons and get something cooler than you could get in most SF games, but playing the neutral, learning the breaking animations and patterns, and staying on top of your combos puts KI way past most beginners, I think.
KI with 20 characters was always going to be a very complicated game. The characters are too interesting and the subsystems rely on character knowledge too much for this to not be true. It’s nearing Guilty Gear levels of complexity now, IMO (not quite there, but close).
I think combo assist is actually the first really successful idea they’ve had (outside of the dojo) at getting beginner players able to do stuff that looks and feels “advanced”.
lol i think yes he a got a chance now to win a match…
Maybe with Sabrewulf with mashing combos and easy manuals and easy enders and huge damages without droping combos…
Tell you what, pal. You post a video of you and your brother playing, and I will personally coach you on how to beat him. Free of charge. He can use combo assist and you can turn it off. We’ll work together to prove these knuckleheads at Microsoft that we can overcome the tyranny that is combo assist mode. What do you say? Are you with me???
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I think my issue is not an irrational fear of losing to a newer player, but more that this effectively removes a method of control some people enjoy out of an already fairly simple to execute metagame by most fighting game standards, due to not enough trade-off for doing so.
Even with (apparently only very slightly) limited combo options, in most cases there’s no real reason to do the motions anymore, even given the current concessions. Some people like fighters because of doing the special moves. Doing the motion is what makes the special move a special move. There’s some satisfaction in that. It’s been said that the assist mode makes people feel like they can pull off cool combos they see higher level players doing, but by the same token being able to do combos with the motions makes an intermediate player feel like they’re pulling off even higher level stuff. If losing that aspect is OK by the devs, and they want combos to only be a button press/guessing game, I’ll just have to live with it, but I’m not really a fan. It feels like the only element of a fighting game is being lost in those situations. It’s like you’re trying to spend all this time playing a fighting game with traditional controls with the goal of getting into a metagame that is not.
I’m fine with assists, but they need to have a concession for using them, and I still don’t think it’s big enough here. This may get peoples’ feet in the door, but I really don’t see any reason for anyone relying on this to step up their game to the previous standard, which I think was fair. There’s no real incentive to ever take the training wheels off. It would be like a bowling tournament where having bumpers block the gutters was optional. Yeah you can still bowl normally, but if the scores still count the same in determining the winner, why bother? (stretch analogy, but you should get the idea).
Also, if this leads to more option selects/tricks as mentioned above for higher levels players to exploit the system, it’s going to frustrate beginners more. Beginners would have much harder times dealing with someone using option selects against them than doing some quarter circle motions. What frustrates a lot of beginners more than doing motions, IMO, is feeling helpless, which is an inherent problem with big combo games and this doesn’t do much to help that.
Unfortunately, unless there’s an assist that lets new players more easily break combos without having to learn and recognize all of the different strength attacks of every character, which is hard for anyone, they’re still going to be eating combos and will be just as frustrated. That’s just the nature of the beast for long combo-based games.
I’ve rambled enough, but I would just like the devs to consider a little bit more tradeoff for using this.
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I think you’re confused as to what it does still. THe reason Max could switch between lights, medium and heavy auto doubles is because that’s Jagos combo trait, it’s called around the world and if jago does this he gets a little boost to his instinct bar. This will not be the case for characters who do not have that trait, instead you will see linkers in between the auto doubles. That said you are still able to easily switch between the strength of linkers and auto doubles with this new system.
I’d just like to point out that if this somehow DOES result in making the game too simple it can be changed or adjusted as needed.
A simple way of doing this would be to lock access to Ranked Leagues if you have Assist enabled, and prevent it from being turned on while IN Ranked Leagues (especially while in a match, if it’s on the pause menu). I know generally they don’t want to prevent anyone from using different functions in the game, but if it’s too easy to button mash this would allow Ranked to be kept to an expected standard of competition or necessary skill, and would give players an incentive to lose their “training wheels.” Assist players would still have full access to Story, local Versus, training, and Exhibition.
Not that I believe this will be a problem, but I thought it was worth putting that idea out there.
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0.0 The negative reception on Max’s video though. Everyone hates it.
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So how does Jago, Shago, and Omen do there Around the world ADs now? How Does Fulgore and Spinal do there 3rd hit manual AD?
It says not competitive advantage…but I disagree… I watched Max’s video this morning and it shows a light crouching kick HIT Confirm into an opener..by just hitting 2 buttons quickly plinked.
Now if that’s not advantage I don’t know what is.
Im all for bringing new players and my 5 year old son is going to love this (he currently is doing 30 hit combos and ultras with OMEN against his own shadow LOL)…but you cant tell me that smart players are not going to use this to there advantage with the mix between Assist and Override.
Plus the opportunity to lock out your opponent is much easier and there will be much more combos not dropped due to execution in intense moments.
I feel Combo assist should not be able to be used during ranked or competition.
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I know you’ve still got full control - what I meant is if they were only to use the assist buttons exclusively, which I’m sure many new players are going to be doing (at least at 1st) until they gradually learn to challenge themselves and adapt to the motion inputs. Until they cross that threshold, however, they WILL still be limited. In other words, just because it’s available to them doesn’t mean they can do it (yet).
Just watched Max’s video.
So you can pretty much just get opener into linker by just two button presses, even if different strength? I dunno. It just seems like there’s no reason for anyone not to use this assist, which is seems like bad balancing for a learning tool. I don’t think such a tool should cannibalize the default method.
Like others, I think Max is missing the point that if there are no tradeoffs, this becomes the standard. Yes, current players already know how to do moves/combos, but why should they anymore now? I mean, IG could make it so that you have the option to do a 720 motion to do a pull of a move in a combo, but if you can turn it off and get the same result with zero trade-off, why even bother? There’s no incentive at all do do what you used to.
Unless I’m still misunderstanding, you pretty much need to do no special motions at all after an initial poke. Isn’t this killing off using special motions for anything other than in neutral? It seems like it results in this no longer being an assist tool, but the new standard. It this what IG wants?
Just thinking out loud here, but can’t there be some sort of trade-off in terms of damage, KV meter, shadow meter or something to balance this out better for actually using the special move? Maybe all or nothing so you’re stuck with one linker ender pattern if turned on? If there’s always an option to use the motions with this on to get the linker/ender of choice (again, please elaborate if I’m off on this), there are zero tradeoffs currently. That’s not good for an assist/learning tool.
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