you can still cancel any strength normal into any strength of the special but you will only get a combo if you follow the rules in the command list. For instance you need to use standing HP/HK as the normal to get medium decimation to combo but you can do it from any button.
do you mean the shadow version? If so then shadow moves outright beat kryll shield much like grounded heavy normals beat armour.
As @mbabanemobius stated, shadow moves beat krill shield. Also, the frist and last frames of running grab do not have krill shield up, so it gets beaten by anything
So I took a look at the throw range for his LP command grab. It’s actually good, I think I focused too much on the other versions and totally bypassed the light one.
As for cr.LP, I like it. I looked at the hitbox, and I’m pleased with the range.
I’m still tripping out about that blocked 236+HP to the LP command grab setup. It’s really good. Risky, but good.
Not at home right now so cannot verify once again, but I’m pretty sure all Raam’s command grabs (for the close one) have the exact same hitbox and speed. The light, medium, and heavy grabs have identical speed and range, and differ only in damage and potential for setup afterwards. The shadow version of this grab also has identical range, and differs most obviously in its insane start-up time. If you like the range for one of his grabs, you should like the range for all of them.
The range does actually decrease as strength goes up, in exchange for damage.
There are also pretty good reasons to use something like medium button xx medium stab, even though it doesn’t combo regularly. It’s an anti-jump setup for people who are scared of command grabs, and it’s safer on block than the version that does combo (light stab). Raam being at -3 or -2 is a lot better than other characters because of the speed of his shadow command grab. You can’t always press a button when you’re +3 vs Raam because shadow grab still wins there.
Basically, you want to convince people it’s okay to block so you can grab them. Doing anti-jump stuff that doesn’t combo off your normal, but starts a combo if they flinch and leaves Raam safer is a good way to do it.
All I know is from the same distance that LP command grab connects, both MP and HO versions don’t. Shadow catches from the same range as LP command grab.
I hope I’m wrong about this actually. I spent at least an hour testing the command grabs alone.
Definitely light command grab has much bigger range than heavy command grab. Otherwise there’s no reason to ever use light, because it does less damage and leaves you farther away than heavy.
The difference is pretty big. For example, st.LK x2 as a tick leaves you in range for light grab but not any of the others.
They do all have the same startup though (hit on 4th frame).
The light version gives you more time for stomps.
Agree, less kv meter, so more stomp follow ups, so more potential cb baits
Apologies. Not sure how I missed that. The first 10 minutes I played Raam was spent just messing around with his grabs with hitboxes on, so not sure how I missed the grab length changing like that
No worries man. I was wrong about 2LP’s range earlier, so I had to double check with the hitbox viewer and saw how good it actually was. I don’t know what I saw that made me think otherwise lol.
Anyway, what’s the general consensus regarding Raam’s best normals?
Standing HP has a really long reach, same with crouching MP. Standing MP is super quick, too. Obviously crouching HP is a good antiair, but it’s even got enough reach on it that I’ve tagged people who didn’t jump as I anticipated they were about to.
HP, c.mp, c. Hp are great, I do like a lot the last one.
J. Hp could be the best cross up of the game
J. Hk has HUGE range and hurts like a truck
So Im hearing a lot on here that the frame data in the game is incorrect. I want to study what moves beat certain moves but I dont trust what I read in teh game data.
And recording a dummy int eh dojo can be very tedious and hard to get to do the exact scenaria you want totest…
@Infilament any suggestions on how to determine Raam grab data so I cant choose the correct normal to press once Im coming out of Kryl grab?
What exactly do you want to test? “Raam grab data” isn’t that specific to me.
All QCB+P grabs have 4 frames of startup. The shadow version is 1 frame (1+0).
After Kryll running grab, you are +4 advantage. That means you can press a button 4 frames slower than your opponent and still win (if he presses a 5f light, you can press up to and including a 9f move). If you try to grab them (a 4f move), it will always beat any action that isn’t throw invincible (ie, a jump or a DP). They can’t press a button to escape.
Well basically Raam hits me with the Kryl Rush… we are both standing there after words… he command grabs me. As Omen… I should be able to press LP or MP and beat a throw or command grab?
If I try to throw I loose pretty much every time…so Im not doing that anymore. In practice I tried recording and I was able to do Lp cancelled into special and beat him out every time.
You say after Im hit with Kryl rush I am at +4…what is Raam at?
*** I think this answered my question…thanks for your help!!
Nope, you can’t take any action that doesn’t avoid a throw. Normals like jabs and regular throws are not throw invincible.
Raam is +4 advantage on you. If he does his 4f grab, you are only just barely recovering by that point, and he basically grabs you out of the 1st or 2nd frame of startup of your normal or regular throw.
Your only choice, if you know he’s going to throw, is to avoid the throw by being throw invincible. Backdash, light Orda Shield, jump, or shadow form are your options.
…but I’ve been able to combo all of them, or at least do something that looks like it. What I know is that Raam never stops moving in terms of his animations - if you do any standing normal other than MK or any crouching normal other than c.HK, he can immediately follow it up with decimation, and then that into an AD, etc. - that’s multiple hits, and is, by definition, a combo. I will concede, however, that I’ve only tested this in practice mode, where my opponent doesn’t fight back or block, so it’s entirely possible that I’m wrong about this (and I’m sure I am, which is why I’m asking in the 1st place). I’ll test it further and try to do so with a friend to boot. The 1 thing that I see that makes me think that I’m wrong other than what everyone’s telling me, along with the command list, is that from what I’ve seen online, most players can block the follow-up decimation attack, because it’s so slow - but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t combo (if they don’t block) - it just means it has such slow startup that it can be blocked under certain circumstances, which is entirely different than “not being able to combo” in the 1st place.
…and no, not the shadow version of ruin; it’s not needed - I can beat his kryll shield ability with ANY regular ruin, especially during his running charge (light ruin works especially well, as does heavy ruin, but medium ruin only seems to succeed ~50% of the time - the other 50%, Raam wins with his grab advantage) or kryll shield focus attack (not so much during his emergence special move, however - that does still beat ruin - or trades if the golem has chunk armor), and I can do so without ANY chunk armor whatsoever.
<looks at plumbing for 5 seconds, sees giant leak>
well there’s yer problem
i’ll have my secretary send you a bill
Also I had to quote this because I read it 5 times and I still am pretty lost.
To be clear, light stab combos off every cancelable normal. Medium stab combos only off stand HP and stand HK (and counter-hit mediums). Heavy stab combos only after the very slow stand HK (which staggers).